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GameTime

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#15 : March 21, 2011, 11:00:29 PM

McCoy  is better suited for UT.

how so?

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#16 : March 21, 2011, 11:03:16 PM

Would make an interesting line....



GameTime

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#17 : March 21, 2011, 11:07:32 PM

Would make an interesting line....

sounds like only to you, me, and SR.

i think most teams would have trouble running on mccoy-price-miller-jordan.  and we already have a top 10 pass defense.  i also do think mccoy could apply pressure from the left, and jordan could apply pressure from the right.

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#18 : March 21, 2011, 11:14:04 PM


The thing that stinks about this whole argument is the idea that McCoy should be moving at all. If you say that Price and McCoy have similar skillsets and therefore shouldn't/can't be on the field at the same time (which I do not concede at all), then shouldn't we be logically be talking about moving Price to LDE instead of McCoy? McCoy was drafted higher, makes MUCH more, is better suited for UT, has played more and played better.


I don't think McCoy and Price have similar skill sets. It's exactly why I'd rather see Price at UT and McCoy at LE. Price has his flaws...like endurance, balance, and now his hip, but when you watch his tape it is undeniable that his initial get off is super fast. He is shorter and stumpier much like Sapp and his biggest asset is his inital burst and immediate penetration. He needs to work on his conditioning and staying on his feet once he gets in the back field, but he is clearly best suited to play as a one gap pentrating 3 technique UT in a 4-3.

When I watch McCoy college tape, as well as his rookie year tape, I see a guy that waits and reacts. He doesn't have an great initial burst, he tends to get his hands on the offensive lineman in front of him and then try to control him until he can see what is happening. He needs better strength but he is tall, has a lean build and long arms so he is effective at controlling the offensive lineman and pretty good at disengaging as well. This skill set seems more suited for shutting down the left side as LE, although he might want to shed 10lbs and play at 285lbs...or even NT if he put on 20lbs. I rarely see him blow up off the line and get immediate penetration though, and that is why I have questioned the pick from day one. He doesn't seem like a 3 tech to me.

: March 21, 2011, 11:16:54 PM JDouble


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#19 : March 21, 2011, 11:17:45 PM

McCoy  is better suited for UT.

how so?

Those were the 6 words from my previous post that threw you off? If you want, remove them from the discussion and my many points still stand.

That said, McCoy was regarding as probably the best UT prospect of the past 10-15 years. Brian Price was dominant at UCLA and played all over the line, including NT where he was excellent. He's squatty, powerful, and stout at the LOS. Just because he was whuppin up on our boys in TC doesn't mean he's not a NT.

I dislike how I have to somehow tear down Price and elevate McCoy to dispute the point of this thread. I can't get any more clearer: we shouldn't move either of them. It's a bad idea. They can and will be on the field at the same time. and they'll rotate significantly with Miller and Okam.

edit: And JDouble, I think you may be confusing "technique" with "skillset". McCoy indicated exactly what you said during his interviews this year: he was reacting too much. When Raheem told him to forget about assignments and gaps and so on, and just get in there, disrupt, make a play, it was like night and day. He absolutely has the skillset for UT. It's why we drafted him.
: March 21, 2011, 11:20:47 PM jeanclaud

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#20 : March 21, 2011, 11:24:13 PM

McCoy  is better suited for UT.

how so?
His lateral quickness favors against interior players moreso than tackle.

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#21 : March 21, 2011, 11:29:25 PM

I don't know about anyone else but I want my UT going straight forward...not lateral.


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#22 : March 22, 2011, 12:37:19 AM

I don't know about anyone else but I want my UT going straight forward...not lateral.
Pass rushers use lateral quickness to get around their opponents though. Sapp had elite lateral quickness which made his swim move/rip unstoppable. Not to mention he was short and stubby so his leverage and quickness was too much for teams to handle. Dude put up 10 sacks in a 3-4 defense with the Raiders. McCoy has similar like quickness but not as built the ground.
Sapp wasn't a guy that used straight forward leverage to get after it, he wasn't that strong at the POA like GMAC.

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#23 : March 22, 2011, 02:25:23 AM

I dont know man, changing positions seems like your giving up on a guy.  Could be wrong but off the top of my head I cant think of any player that changed positions and was successful after that.  A few busts have been moved around in desperation, but then they just fade away.  I think this will be a big season for Gerald.


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#24 : March 22, 2011, 04:43:19 AM

Anyone remember what position Reggie White and Michael Strahan played? 

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#25 : March 22, 2011, 07:22:26 AM

draft position and paycheck mean absolutely nothing. thats the worst argument ive ever heard regarding where a player should play or where they should be drafted at. They can either play or they cant. they earn their paycheck or they dont. Their are busts drafted all over every single round and the same goes for elite players. Jarod Allen wasnt a top 5 pick and Bruce Smith was, so whats the point? You take the best player available no matter what position they play and hope it works out. Every single position in the NFL has been a top 5 pick in one draft or another so that argument is just assinine.



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#26 : March 22, 2011, 07:37:12 AM


[/quote]
IF mccoy can be a dominant LDE, and IF price can be a dominant UT, and IF our 1st rounder this year can be a dominant RDE...is it really a waste? 
[/quote]

No. But, there are a lot of IFS there.

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#27 : March 22, 2011, 07:43:59 AM

Those were the 6 words from my previous post that threw you off? If you want, remove them from the discussion and my many points still stand.

That said, McCoy was regarding as probably the best UT prospect of the past 10-15 years. Brian Price was dominant at UCLA and played all over the line, including NT where he was excellent. He's squatty, powerful, and stout at the LOS. Just because he was whuppin up on our boys in TC doesn't mean he's not a NT.

I dislike how I have to somehow tear down Price and elevate McCoy to dispute the point of this thread. I can't get any more clearer: we shouldn't move either of them. It's a bad idea. They can and will be on the field at the same time. and they'll rotate significantly with Miller and Okam.

edit: And JDouble, I think you may be confusing "technique" with "skillset". McCoy indicated exactly what you said during his interviews this year: he was reacting too much. When Raheem told him to forget about assignments and gaps and so on, and just get in there, disrupt, make a play, it was like night and day. He absolutely has the skillset for UT. It's why we drafted him.

because people told you isnt the greatest reasoning why mccoy is better suited to play UT than price.  no one is arguing that mccoy cant/wont make a great UT.  the questioning is why cant he make a great LE?  why does he have more potential than price?  i dont think you have to tear down price to discuss why/how mccoy is more talented.  i think jdoub put up a nice view with post #18. 

even with the draft day results, i think price has  the potential to be as good or even better than mccoy.  but i think they will both be great.  i just want to see them both get a maximum number of snaps.  you think it should be UT/NT.  i think it should be LE/UT.  why?  because we've got some guys that can play NT.  but we dont have much to speak of at LE.  and thats what started this thread.

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#28 : March 22, 2011, 07:48:11 AM

His lateral quickness favors against interior players moreso than tackle.

are you saying mccoy has poor lateral quickness?  im still struggling with the concept of lateral being literal.

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#29 : March 22, 2011, 08:00:26 AM

His lateral quickness favors against interior players moreso than tackle.

are you saying mccoy has poor lateral quickness?  im still struggling with the concept of lateral being literal.
No I'm saying his lateral quickness would not be quick enough for NFL Tackles. There aren't many elite pass protecting interior player than there is for tackles. Since those interior lineman aren't really required to have good footwork. McCoy would have it harder to use his quickness on the edge than in the inside. Comprende?
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