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GameTime

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#30 : April 05, 2011, 05:29:16 PM

I just hate when people fall in love with players and complete shut out the idea of another player or players because they are to involved in their love for one player

exactly.

and as for being maxed out, the same was said about peyton manning and for a better example drew brees.  kerrigan could easily be the same type of player.

ill be happy with any DE i believe.  although houston and smith will cause me to worry a bit.

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#31 : April 05, 2011, 05:34:01 PM

As far as I'm concerned Quinn, Kerrigan, Smith, and Houston are on near equal footing with me. They all have the physical skills and college production to show they can be upper level players in the NFL. Which one is the best is impossible to know with any certainty.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#32 : April 05, 2011, 05:38:47 PM

I just hate when people fall in love with players and complete shut out the idea of another player or players because they are to involved in their love for one player

yet you seem to dismiss Kerrigan pretty easily despite the fact he has better production then Houston.

The reason why I like Kerrigan is as follows...

1) Great Production in College
2) Very good tools to work with
3) Good upside as a player in the NFL
4) High motor
5) NOT an idiot
6) No character concerns at all
7) Highly regarded as one of the best DE's in the draft
8) Safe pick

Tell me why that is such a bad thing to like over other players? You say that Kerrigan doesn't have a elite talent. Well tell me this? Who do you see as a DE in this draft other then maybe Quinn and Bowers to have Elite talent? You want to act like Justin Houston is some can't miss prospect at 20 then go ahead, but I am not on his hype/bandwagon whatsoever.

Its not bandwagoning or riding the jockstrap of any player in the draft if they proven they are good. Thats why Kerrigan is my favorite player in the draft. If you don't like it then that is on you.

You may see Kerrigan as a reach, but most analysts don't. There is a legitimate reason why Kerrigan might not be there at 20...because he will have already been taken. If you go off of production he is the best DE in the draft. Sorry but thats just how it is. So Dominik tends to take guys who have either produced very well in college (Mike Williams,Brian Price, Gerald McCoy, Dekoda Watson) or he goes after guys with very elite talent (Freeman, Benn, Lewis). Way I see it, we are going to have to trade up to get him, and that is fine by me.

Ryan Kerrigan for 2011 Please!!!

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#33 : April 05, 2011, 05:42:19 PM

At 20 I'm a Clayborn fan so I dont really have a dog in this fight, but Houston is one of the most overrated players in this draft.

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#34 : April 05, 2011, 05:47:27 PM

At 20 I'm a Clayborn fan so I dont really have a dog in this fight, but Houston is one of the most overrated players in this draft.

Thank you. One of the reasons why I think Houston is overrated due to where he is projected to go. If he was there at #51 I would be ALL over that.

Remember when they were projecting Michael Johnson to go to the Bucs at 17? Thank the Lord Jesus Christ that DIDNT happen. Now if he was there in the 3rd round when we selected Miller then it would have been a nice pick.

Ryan Kerrigan for 2011 Please!!!

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#35 : April 05, 2011, 05:59:57 PM

If you go off of production he is the best DE in the draft. Sorry but thats just how it is. So Dominik tends to take guys who have either produced very well in college (Mike Williams,Brian Price, Gerald McCoy, Dekoda Watson) or he goes after guys with very elite talent (Freeman, Benn, Lewis). Way I see it, we are going to have to trade up to get him, and that is fine by me.
Career production doesn't mean much for pass rushers. Many top players leave as underclassmen, some sit behind established players their first few years, and some need time to physically mature. All that really matters is the last year or two to show you can get it done and aren't just potential and then it comes down to tools. Brian Orakpo only had 22 sacks in 4 years at Texas while Gaines Adams had 33 at Clemson, but how did that work out?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#36 : April 05, 2011, 06:02:26 PM

I just hate when people fall in love with players and complete shut out the idea of another player or players because they are to involved in their love for one player

yet you seem to dismiss Kerrigan pretty easily despite the fact he has better production then Houston.

The reason why I like Kerrigan is as follows...

1) Great Production in College
2) Very good tools to work with
3) Good upside as a player in the NFL
4) High motor
5) NOT an idiot
6) No character concerns at all
7) Highly regarded as one of the best DE's in the draft
8) Safe pick

Tell me why that is such a bad thing to like over other players? You say that Kerrigan doesn't have a elite talent. Well tell me this? Who do you see as a DE in this draft other then maybe Quinn and Bowers to have Elite talent? You want to act like Justin Houston is some can't miss prospect at 20 then go ahead, but I am not on his hype/bandwagon whatsoever.

Its not bandwagoning or riding the jockstrap of any player in the draft if they proven they are good. Thats why Kerrigan is my favorite player in the draft. If you don't like it then that is on you.

You may see Kerrigan as a reach, but most analysts don't. There is a legitimate reason why Kerrigan might not be there at 20...because he will have already been taken. If you go off of production he is the best DE in the draft. Sorry but thats just how it is. So Dominik tends to take guys who have either produced very well in college (Mike Williams,Brian Price, Gerald McCoy, Dekoda Watson) or he goes after guys with very elite talent (Freeman, Benn, Lewis). Way I see it, we are going to have to trade up to get him, and that is fine by me.

You might want to reread what everyones been telling you. Its not the fact that we don't believe Kerrigan is an ideal 1st round pick. I think the majority here would be happy with him as our pick. It's that your mancrush for Kerrigan is blinding you from accepting any other choices at our pick as if Kerrigan is the only possible talented DE.  Hell, you even made your user name based on the guy. Truth is, the majority of the DE's in the draft are quality choices.


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#37 : April 05, 2011, 06:04:12 PM

If you go off of production he is the best DE in the draft. Sorry but thats just how it is. So Dominik tends to take guys who have either produced very well in college (Mike Williams,Brian Price, Gerald McCoy, Dekoda Watson) or he goes after guys with very elite talent (Freeman, Benn, Lewis). Way I see it, we are going to have to trade up to get him, and that is fine by me.
Career production doesn't mean much for pass rushers. Many top players leave as underclassmen, some sit behind established players their first few years, and some need time to physically mature. All that really matters is the last year or two to show you can get it done and aren't just potential and then it comes down to tools. Brian Orakpo only had 22 sacks in 4 years at Texas while Gaines Adams had 33 at Clemson, but how did that work out?
Pretty badily, but if you can show me enough examples to develop a pattern that highly productive DEs in college tend to do worse then the ones who did not perform up to their potential then I will hold some weight into that argument. For every untapped potential guy who goes early due to upside, you have a handful of those same guys who don't end up making any impact. It goes the same way for productive guys as well, but there is a reason why usually production outweighs potential in the draft.

Ryan Kerrigan for 2011 Please!!!

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#38 : April 05, 2011, 06:10:10 PM

I just hate when people fall in love with players and complete shut out the idea of another player or players because they are to involved in their love for one player

yet you seem to dismiss Kerrigan pretty easily despite the fact he has better production then Houston.

The reason why I like Kerrigan is as follows...

1) Great Production in College
2) Very good tools to work with
3) Good upside as a player in the NFL
4) High motor
5) NOT an idiot
6) No character concerns at all
7) Highly regarded as one of the best DE's in the draft
8) Safe pick

Tell me why that is such a bad thing to like over other players? You say that Kerrigan doesn't have a elite talent. Well tell me this? Who do you see as a DE in this draft other then maybe Quinn and Bowers to have Elite talent? You want to act like Justin Houston is some can't miss prospect at 20 then go ahead, but I am not on his hype/bandwagon whatsoever.

Its not bandwagoning or riding the jockstrap of any player in the draft if they proven they are good. Thats why Kerrigan is my favorite player in the draft. If you don't like it then that is on you.

You may see Kerrigan as a reach, but most analysts don't. There is a legitimate reason why Kerrigan might not be there at 20...because he will have already been taken. If you go off of production he is the best DE in the draft. Sorry but thats just how it is. So Dominik tends to take guys who have either produced very well in college (Mike Williams,Brian Price, Gerald McCoy, Dekoda Watson) or he goes after guys with very elite talent (Freeman, Benn, Lewis). Way I see it, we are going to have to trade up to get him, and that is fine by me.

You might want to reread what everyones been telling you. Its not the fact that we don't believe Kerrigan is an ideal 1st round pick. I think the majority here would be happy with him as our pick. It's that your mancrush for Kerrigan is blinding you from accepting any other choices at our pick as if Kerrigan is the only possible talented DE.  Hell, you even made your user name based on the guy. Truth is, the majority of the DE's in the draft are quality choices.

Not true at all, I have stated many times I am a fan of other DE's in this draft. I would love to get JJ Watt or Cameron Jordan or DaQuan Bowers. I even like 2nd round potential guys like Allen Bailey or Jabaal Sheard. Do I have a bit of a mancrush on kerrigan? Yes, but thats because I am just hoping that Dominik doesn't go the way of Bruce Allen. Bruce Allen always drafted based off of raw potential and its why we have like very few draft picks still on the team from 04-08. I just don't want to see us take a flier on raw potential and have it end up like another wasted pick. Kerrigan seems safe, McCoy was safe, Freeman was a gamble to the fans but Raheem had upclose experience so he prolly felt very safe. I love the Bucs and all I want at the end of the day is for our team to get back to what we achieved in 2002. I could end up being dead wrong about Kerrigan and Justin Houston could be a beast, but you got to go with your gut instinct.

Ryan Kerrigan for 2011 Please!!!

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#39 : April 05, 2011, 06:11:08 PM

At 20 I'm a Clayborn fan so I dont really have a dog in this fight, but Houston is one of the most overrated players in this draft.

Not on the Houston bandwagon but...

Clayborn
-Terrible senior season
-Terrible combine
-Turned down the senior bowl
-Terrible pro day
-Character concerns
-injury concerns

Houston
-Double digit sack junior season
-Great combine
-Great pro day
-No character concerns
-Healthy

But Houston is overrated? Get out of here.


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#40 : April 05, 2011, 06:16:11 PM

At 20 I'm a Clayborn fan so I dont really have a dog in this fight, but Houston is one of the most overrated players in this draft.

Not on the Houston bandwagon but...

Clayborn
-Terrible senior season
-Terrible combine
-Turned down the senior bowl
-Terrible pro day
-Character concerns
-injury concerns


???  Clayborn had an outstanding combine and a solid pro day.  Not sure where you are going with that.


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#41 : April 05, 2011, 06:17:34 PM

Elite potential outweighs production dude. Its always been that way, regarding draft position and who goes first.


GameTime

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#42 : April 05, 2011, 06:18:46 PM

Clayborn
-Terrible senior season
-Terrible combine
-Turned down the senior bowl
-Terrible pro day
-Character concerns
-injury concerns

brads beat me to it, but how was clayborns combine "terrible"?  i didnt hear about his pro day, how was that "terrible"?  are his character concerns related to more than just one racially motivated incident?

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#43 : April 05, 2011, 06:29:45 PM

At 20 I'm a Clayborn fan so I dont really have a dog in this fight, but Houston is one of the most overrated players in this draft.

Not on the Houston bandwagon but...

Clayborn
-Terrible senior season
-Terrible combine
-Turned down the senior bowl
-Terrible pro day
-Character concerns
-injury concerns

Houston
-Double digit sack junior season
-Great combine
-Great pro day
-No character concerns
-Healthy

But Houston is overrated? Get out of here.

Im not even really that big of a fan on Clayborn but he is definitely a much better prospect at DE then Houston is.

Way I see it, the Top pass rushing DEs are rated as such to me:

Bowers
Quinn
Kerrigan
Watt
Jordan
Smith
Clayborn
Sheard
Houston
Reed
Bailey


Ryan Kerrigan for 2011 Please!!!

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#44 : April 05, 2011, 06:34:55 PM

Not true at all, I have stated many times I am a fan of other DE's in this draft. I would love to get JJ Watt or Cameron Jordan or DaQuan Bowers. I even like 2nd round potential guys like Allen Bailey or Jabaal Sheard. Do I have a bit of a mancrush on kerrigan? Yes, but thats because I am just hoping that Dominik doesn't go the way of Bruce Allen. Bruce Allen always drafted based off of raw potential and its why we have like very few draft picks still on the team from 04-08. I just don't want to see us take a flier on raw potential and have it end up like another wasted pick. Kerrigan seems safe, McCoy was safe, Freeman was a gamble to the fans but Raheem had upclose experience so he prolly felt very safe. I love the Bucs and all I want at the end of the day is for our team to get back to what we achieved in 2002. I could end up being dead wrong about Kerrigan and Justin Houston could be a beast, but you got to go with your gut instinct.
Almost all Bruce Allen's high picks were safe prospects. Clayton had a lot or production at a big school and played on a national championship team, Carnell was an elite college player who played on an undefeated team and had great character, Davin Joseph started like 50 games for one of the top programs in the country, and Gaines Adams had great college production, as I already spoke of. But none of them had the upside to take it to the next level in the NFL. They had already peaked. Aqib Talib was the only risky pick and on the field he was the best player of those five 1st rounders.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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