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BucsBay

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#30 : April 11, 2011, 02:39:50 PM

Parker doesn't have short area quickness?  He was 6th out of all WRs at the combine in the 20 yard shuttle.

and he had a 7.2 second 3 cone compared to Jerrigan's 6.7.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1116555
http://troy.wsfa.com/news/news/jerrel-jernigan-diary-3711/73699

nubcake

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#31 : April 11, 2011, 02:48:04 PM

Parker doesn't have short area quickness?  He was 6th out of all WRs at the combine in the 20 yard shuttle.

and he had a 7.2 second 3 cone compared to Jerrigan's 6.7.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1116555
http://troy.wsfa.com/news/news/jerrel-jernigan-diary-3711/73699

And while you're worried about a half-second difference in the 3 cone drill at a position we have depth in, I'm sure Dominick will continue to worry about actually pressuring QBs or protecting ours.

Slot WR is a minor need. I wouldn't be opposed to taking one in the 5th round or later, but we can't be using high draft picks on one. Parker showed a lot of potential at the position(regardless of 3 cone times) and Stroughter is decent there. Meanwhile, we already KNOW that our DEs are awful and we could really use an upgrade at LB or OL as well. I'm all for BPA, but you have to do it within reason. We won't be drafting a QB if he happens to be BPA, and on that same note we also shouldn't take a WR when we have larger needs at nearly every position on the team. DE, LB, OL, even TE and CB are much larger needs right now.


GameTime

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#32 : April 11, 2011, 02:52:06 PM

what about these numbers?

jernigan - http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=69222&draftyear=2011&genpos=WR

parker - http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66072&draftyear=2010&genpos=WR

stroughter - http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=15437&draftyear=2009&genpos=WR

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BucsBay

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#33 : April 11, 2011, 02:54:16 PM

Parker doesn't have short area quickness?  He was 6th out of all WRs at the combine in the 20 yard shuttle.

and he had a 7.2 second 3 cone compared to Jerrigan's 6.7.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1116555
http://troy.wsfa.com/news/news/jerrel-jernigan-diary-3711/73699

And while you're worried about a half-second difference in the 3 cone drill at a position we have depth in, I'm sure Dominick will continue to worry about actually pressuring QBs or protecting ours.

Slot WR is a minor need. I wouldn't be opposed to taking one in the 5th round or later, but we can't be using high draft picks on one. Parker showed a lot of potential at the position(regardless of 3 cone times) and Stroughter is decent there. Meanwhile, we already KNOW that our DEs are awful and we could really use an upgrade at LB or OL as well. I'm all for BPA, but you have to do it within reason. We won't be drafting a QB if he happens to be BPA, and on that same note we also shouldn't take a WR when we have larger needs at nearly every position on the team. DE, LB, OL, even TE and CB are much larger needs right now.

I would think that a WR who gets open quickly underneath and allows Freeman to get the ball out of his hands would help in protection, but that's just me. I know everytime I saw the Bucs use Mike Williams for those routes last year and take an ackward hit I cringed, so a guy who does know how to run them and take the hit could help maintain our health in a few ways.

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#34 : April 11, 2011, 03:17:38 PM

1. underneath passing attack- more has to do with RBs and TEs most cases. Stroughter has proven to be a solid slot guy and Briscoe showed up nicely his two games he got to play at the end of the year.
Crossing routes and option routes, run by WR's, are just as important if not more to the underneath passing attack as routes run be backs and TE's. Backs and TE's often have to block. A WR is almost always in play to catch the ball.

2. Anticipation throws- All dependent of Freeman and his understanding of the plays and chemistry with WRs.....nothing to do with a slot WR
Making Safeties worry about having to tackle a great YAC guy who catches a lot of balls underneath would make those timing routes less likely to be contested or picked

3. big plays downfield with Freeman out of the pocket- once again dependent completely on Freeman and play calling.....nothin to do with a slot WR.
Scramble drill. If you're short go deep. If your deep work back to the QB. A guy who works a lot of underneath routes should also make plays downfield in the scramble drill, especially if he has good speed and awareness.

1. crossing routes and option routes are ran all over the field, not just underneath. No **CENSORED** a WR is almost always involved, that why they are on the field. If you looking for a WR that can sit underneath coverage 5 yards deep, they are on the roster. You dont need a 2nd rounder to do that.

2. Safties are going to play their assignment. Some will gamble, but its not going to make a difference if a 2nd round WR is running in the slot. With Williams, Benn, and Winslow, Im pretty sure they are going to draw attention regardless. Benn and Winslow have great YAC ability. adding one more guy with YAC ability isnt going to change a Ss mindset. because guess what? every team has YAC guys all over the field.

3. Every WR and offense in the world has done this since at least high school. Once again, this wouldnt be dependent on getting a 2nd round WR. Every WR in the NFL practices these fundamentals.

Then your reasoning becomes you dont like seeing Williams take a hit in the middle? cmon man! Or that the Bucs need a guy that get open quickly in the middle? Isnt getting open quickly the idea for EVERY WR even when they line up outside? Every other position can be had in the latter rounds except WR? Williams was a 4th round pick. Hell, even Stroughter has been solid and was a 7th.

Its painfully obvious your trying to justify your love for Jerrigan and wanting to draft him in the 2nd. Just give it up and find a new jock to ride.



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BucsBay

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#35 : April 11, 2011, 03:30:53 PM

1. underneath passing attack- more has to do with RBs and TEs most cases. Stroughter has proven to be a solid slot guy and Briscoe showed up nicely his two games he got to play at the end of the year.
Crossing routes and option routes, run by WR's, are just as important if not more to the underneath passing attack as routes run be backs and TE's. Backs and TE's often have to block. A WR is almost always in play to catch the ball.

2. Anticipation throws- All dependent of Freeman and his understanding of the plays and chemistry with WRs.....nothing to do with a slot WR
Making Safeties worry about having to tackle a great YAC guy who catches a lot of balls underneath would make those timing routes less likely to be contested or picked

3. big plays downfield with Freeman out of the pocket- once again dependent completely on Freeman and play calling.....nothin to do with a slot WR.
Scramble drill. If you're short go deep. If your deep work back to the QB. A guy who works a lot of underneath routes should also make plays downfield in the scramble drill, especially if he has good speed and awareness.

1. crossing routes and option routes are ran all over the field, not just underneath. No **CENSORED** a WR is almost always involved, that why they are on the field. If you looking for a WR that can sit underneath coverage 5 yards deep, they are on the roster. You dont need a 2nd rounder to do that.

2. Safties are going to play their assignment. Some will gamble, but its not going to make a difference if a 2nd round WR is running in the slot. With Williams, Benn, and Winslow, Im pretty sure they are going to draw attention regardless. Benn and Winslow have great YAC ability. adding one more guy with YAC ability isnt going to change a Ss mindset. because guess what? every team has YAC guys all over the field.

3. Every WR and offense in the world has done this since at least high school. Once again, this wouldnt be dependent on getting a 2nd round WR. Every WR in the NFL practices these fundamentals.

Then your reasoning becomes you dont like seeing Williams take a hit in the middle? cmon man! Or that the Bucs need a guy that get open quickly in the middle? Isnt getting open quickly the idea for EVERY WR even when they line up outside? Every other position can be had in the latter rounds except WR? Williams was a 4th round pick. Hell, even Stroughter has been solid and was a 7th.

Its painfully obvious your trying to justify your love for Jerrigan and wanting to draft him in the 2nd. Just give it up and find a new jock to ride.

Ok, so who do you want in the second round so I can punch wholes through your points and explain why Jerrigan is a better pick?

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#36 : April 11, 2011, 03:37:54 PM

Out of curiosity, why is everyone so sure he's GOING TO BE a slot guy?  Steve Smith, DeSean Jackson, Santana Moss, and Greg Jennings are all 5'-10" and none of them are slot guys.  Don't get me wrong, I don't what know he'll be, but listening to NFL Radio, I haven't heard a single person (i.e. Pat Kirwan, Gil Brandt, or guess "experts" al-la McShay), say the only position Jerrigan can fill is the slot.  If this team thinks he can be a primary target opposite Williams, then I see no reason why they should pass on him.  Now of course, if they have another player rated higher, then so be it.  But to discount him just because he's a WR, is rediculous.  Sure, we may be "deep" with talent at the WR position, but as I said before, not a single one (aside from Williams - talking about the depth here), of them have done anything to merit the respect that a lot here are giving.
: April 11, 2011, 03:39:38 PM TBayXXXVII

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#37 : April 11, 2011, 03:40:18 PM

Ok, so who do you want in the second round so I can punch wholes through your points and explain why Jerrigan is a better pick?

RasI Dowling?  Marcus Cannon? 

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#38 : April 11, 2011, 03:40:48 PM

I didn't really mean to peg Jerrigan just as a slot guy. His ability to function out of the slot, stretch the field, and return kicks would be my justification for us taking him, but I do think he can do a lot more. Heck he could even be a legit Wild Cat QB from what I've seen.

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#39 : April 11, 2011, 03:46:11 PM

Ok, so who do you want in the second round so I can punch wholes through your points and explain why Jerrigan is a better pick?

RasI Dowling?  Marcus Cannon?

That's a guy I'd like to see in a Bucs uniform!!

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#40 : April 11, 2011, 03:51:23 PM

Ok, so who do you want in the second round so I can punch wholes through your points and explain why Jerrigan is a better pick?

RasI Dowling?  Marcus Cannon?

I like both Dowling and Cannon a lot, and would be happy with either of those guys as picks.

Cannon could do a lot for our power game, and I haven't watch a lot of his tape but at his size I don't think he is the type of a guy that you will count on to win 1 on 1 a lot in the passing game. It's just a personal preference that I would rather bring in a guy who does more to help Freeman in the passing game, because that's what I've seen to be most important in who's made the last few Superbowls. Cannon's size would be a concern in the Florida heat earlier in the year, and there's no guarantee that Cannon would start day 1 over James Lee or that it would be a smooth transition to Guard.

I wouldn't be upset with Dowling either, especially if the Bucs want or have to move on from Talib. Still Dowling's game is similar to Talib's, Bigger's, and Myron Lewis' as big physical corners so you'd still be looking for a quicker guy to play the slot when Ronde leaves. Assuming Talib is on the team this year Dowling is at best our 4th CB and possibly our 5th. CB's don't rotate in like WR's, so chances are when we are on our playoff push in December Dowling would be watching from the bench. Not necessarily where you want your second round pick on a team that counts on contributions from rookies.
: April 11, 2011, 03:54:27 PM BucsPirate1

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#41 : April 11, 2011, 03:58:29 PM

i want cannon as a G, and i agree, there isnt a guarantee the transition would be smooth.  but i do like the idea of blount running behind lorig and a line of penn-cannon-larsen-joseph-dotson.  thats a lot of beef.

i want dowling at S.  he could be a short term fix at FS assuming tjax comes back or a longterm fix at CB assuming talib doesnt.  he's also a high character guy that could excel on ST's while he learns the NFL game.

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#42 : April 11, 2011, 04:03:32 PM

1. underneath passing attack- more has to do with RBs and TEs most cases. Stroughter has proven to be a solid slot guy and Briscoe showed up nicely his two games he got to play at the end of the year.
Crossing routes and option routes, run by WR's, are just as important if not more to the underneath passing attack as routes run be backs and TE's. Backs and TE's often have to block. A WR is almost always in play to catch the ball.

2. Anticipation throws- All dependent of Freeman and his understanding of the plays and chemistry with WRs.....nothing to do with a slot WR
Making Safeties worry about having to tackle a great YAC guy who catches a lot of balls underneath would make those timing routes less likely to be contested or picked

3. big plays downfield with Freeman out of the pocket- once again dependent completely on Freeman and play calling.....nothin to do with a slot WR.
Scramble drill. If you're short go deep. If your deep work back to the QB. A guy who works a lot of underneath routes should also make plays downfield in the scramble drill, especially if he has good speed and awareness.

1. crossing routes and option routes are ran all over the field, not just underneath. No **CENSORED** a WR is almost always involved, that why they are on the field. If you looking for a WR that can sit underneath coverage 5 yards deep, they are on the roster. You dont need a 2nd rounder to do that.

2. Safties are going to play their assignment. Some will gamble, but its not going to make a difference if a 2nd round WR is running in the slot. With Williams, Benn, and Winslow, Im pretty sure they are going to draw attention regardless. Benn and Winslow have great YAC ability. adding one more guy with YAC ability isnt going to change a Ss mindset. because guess what? every team has YAC guys all over the field.

3. Every WR and offense in the world has done this since at least high school. Once again, this wouldnt be dependent on getting a 2nd round WR. Every WR in the NFL practices these fundamentals.

Then your reasoning becomes you dont like seeing Williams take a hit in the middle? cmon man! Or that the Bucs need a guy that get open quickly in the middle? Isnt getting open quickly the idea for EVERY WR even when they line up outside? Every other position can be had in the latter rounds except WR? Williams was a 4th round pick. Hell, even Stroughter has been solid and was a 7th.

Its painfully obvious your trying to justify your love for Jerrigan and wanting to draft him in the 2nd. Just give it up and find a new jock to ride.

Ok, so who do you want in the second round so I can punch wholes through your points and explain why Jerrigan is a better pick?

about 15 other guys before even thinking about a WR. Ras I, Cannon(as GT suggested), Sheard if he falls, Clayborn if he falls, House, Carter, Rudolph, Reed, Houston if he falls, Harris, Hudson, Bailey, Franklin...those are just off the top of my head. I have no other points to make, Ive made them all in regards to a WR in the 2nd. Now if everyone of those guys are off the board, it may be a consideration to draft Jerrigan(theres a reason most have him going at the bottom of the second, top of the 3rd behind nearly every guy i listed). Until then, hes not even on the draft board. Thats the beauty of not hanging from one guys jock, your open to multiple players at multiple positions to improve the team.

PS- Barber isnt a quicker DB anymore and he seems to play the slot well. Biggers, Lewis, Talib, and Dowling are all 4.4 guys. They all have the speed and quickness to play in the slot as all of them did at some point this past year save for maybe Lewis. Assuming Dowling cant compete for a spot with Biggers and Lewis and ends up 4th or 5th on the depth chart is assinine. Your whole idea of not relying on a 2nd round DB over a 2nd round WR is even more assinine.

We got it, you love the dude past the point of reason. Its OK as it happens to a lot of people. Justifying it just isnt going to come easily without legitimate points. If you could bring those, maybe people would change their tune some dont you think?



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#43 : April 11, 2011, 04:07:46 PM

Parker will be lucky to be on the team next year.  I don't think anyone should be looking at him as a reason not to go WR


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#44 : April 11, 2011, 04:33:22 PM


about 15 other guys before even thinking about a WR. Ras I, Cannon(as GT suggested), Sheard if he falls, Clayborn if he falls, House, Carter, Rudolph, Reed, Houston if he falls, Harris, Hudson, Bailey, Franklin...those are just off the top of my head. I have no other points to make, Ive made them all in regards to a WR in the 2nd. Now if everyone of those guys are off the board, it may be a consideration to draft Jerrigan(theres a reason most have him going at the bottom of the second, top of the 3rd behind nearly every guy i listed). Until then, hes not even on the draft board. Thats the beauty of not hanging from one guys jock, your open to multiple players at multiple positions to improve the team.

PS- Barber isnt a quicker DB anymore and he seems to play the slot well. Biggers, Lewis, Talib, and Dowling are all 4.4 guys. They all have the speed and quickness to play in the slot as all of them did at some point this past year save for maybe Lewis. Assuming Dowling cant compete for a spot with Biggers and Lewis and ends up 4th or 5th on the depth chart is assinine. Your whole idea of not relying on a 2nd round DB over a 2nd round WR is even more assinine.

We got it, you love the dude past the point of reason. Its OK as it happens to a lot of people. Justifying it just isnt going to come easily without legitimate points. If you could bring those, maybe people would change their tune some dont you think?

Houston is not going to be there in the 2nd, and niether is Clayborn. If either one is that's an easy pick. Bailey is a good player, but I wouldn't expect a ton of pass rush from him and I don't know if he is enough of an upgrade from Alex McGee to justify a second round pick.

We already have guys who are a lot like Carter in Geno Hayes and Dekota Waton, and getting him in the 2nd is a reach.

I don't know if being a technician is going to get Hudson as far in the NFL as some think. He probably needs to be on a zone team to be effective at Guard, and you're not going to start a rookie who didn't play Center in college there his first year in the NFL. Who wants to draft a Guard in the 2nd round anyway? You find those guys later. Same point goes for Franklin. I'd prefer Pinkston in the 3rd to any of those lineman outside of Cannon.

Reed and Sheard seem stiffed hipped to me, and I'd rather go after guys like Elmore or Remeous in the 3rd and 4th who at least give you more size and power.

Rudolph would be a wasted pick when we have K2. He'll be lucky to be 1/2 the player, and he would be riding pine.

As promising as Dowling is to think he would start over Talib, Barber, or Biggers is what is assinine. Yes he'd have a shot. Everyone has a shot. But most likely he'd be competing with Lewis for the 4th CB spot. Same goes for House.

Harris could be a great pick because he brings a different skill set, but he is almost definitely long gone by the time we pick in the 2nd as well.
: April 11, 2011, 04:44:25 PM BucsPirate1
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