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tatmanfish

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#15 : April 20, 2011, 10:10:59 AM

King sucks for sure, but Im surprised no one said anything sooner about Gruden. People on here have, but the national media acts like Gruden is some sort of QB guru at developing QBs.



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#16 : April 20, 2011, 10:30:31 AM

King sucks for sure, but Im surprised no one said anything sooner about Gruden. People on here have, but the national media acts like Gruden is some sort of QB guru at developing QBs.

The national opinion of Gruden is the same as it was in 2001.  The Tampa Bay opinion of Gruden... well... we learned better.


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#17 : April 20, 2011, 11:03:12 AM

I like Gruden, a lot actually.  I think his failures came as he played GM too much rather than focus on coaching exclusively.  He is a great coach, but not a GM or talent scout.  That being said, King has a point.  Gruden is more of a veteran QB coach.  He can make a guy better than he is, but never seemed to have the ability to develop young guys.  As for the King hate, I don't really get it.  I always liked him.  He was slow and wasn't a good QB, but he tried, had a good attitude and had that local boy charm.  For part of one season, he gave us some sense of hope  I was always pulling for him to be better than he was but now he is showing some bitterness about his shortcomings. 

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#18 : April 20, 2011, 11:07:12 AM

I like Gruden, a lot actually.  I think his failures came as he played GM too much rather than focus on coaching exclusively.  He is a great coach, but not a GM or talent scout.  That being said, King has a point.  Gruden is more of a veteran QB coach.  He can make a guy better than he is, but never seemed to have the ability to develop young guys.  As for the King hate, I don't really get it.  I always liked him.  He was slow and wasn't a good QB, but he tried, had a good attitude and had that local boy charm.  For part of one season, he gave us some sense of hope  I was always pulling for him to be better than he was but now he is showing some bitterness about his shortcomings.

I still think Gruden is a good QB coach, even for rookies. Just think his eye of talent was a little off and the people he brought in were never really going to do anything in this league anyway.

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#19 : April 20, 2011, 11:10:57 AM

I like Gruden, a lot actually.  I think his failures came as he played GM too much rather than focus on coaching exclusively.  He is a great coach, but not a GM or talent scout.  That being said, King has a point.  Gruden is more of a veteran QB coach.  He can make a guy better than he is, but never seemed to have the ability to develop young guys.  As for the King hate, I don't really get it.  I always liked him.  He was slow and wasn't a good QB, but he tried, had a good attitude and had that local boy charm.  For part of one season, he gave us some sense of hope  I was always pulling for him to be better than he was but now he is showing some bitterness about his shortcomings.

I have nothing against Jon personally, but I would've like to have seen his record with... say... the Texans' defense, instead of Monte's Cover 2.  My guess is he wouldn't have lasted seven seasons.  In fact, outside of a three-year run where he went 34-14 (and rightfully earned his title as 'genius'), he fielded nothing but mediocre teams.


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#20 : April 20, 2011, 11:16:17 AM


I still think Gruden is a good QB coach, even for rookies. Just think his eye of talent was a little off and the people he brought in were never really going to do anything in this league anyway.

I can appreciate that.  He is one of the worst talent scouts ever so it's hard to say what he could do with an elite young QB.  I think his poor record down the stretch had less to do with his coaching and more to do with the players he and Allen were drafting.

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#21 : April 20, 2011, 11:26:04 AM


I still think Gruden is a good QB coach, even for rookies. Just think his eye of talent was a little off and the people he brought in were never really going to do anything in this league anyway.

I can appreciate that.  He is one of the worst talent scouts ever so it's hard to say what he could do with an elite young QB.  I think his poor record down the stretch had less to do with his coaching and more to do with the players he and Allen were drafting.

I agree. His problem is he liked the upside of every player and thought he could coach up anyone. Then bringing all these old washed up players didn't help either. He did well with what he had but most of the seasons he did well he benefited from having an easy schedule. Its funny people make that excuse for this year but fail to realize every year Gruden finished over 500 the SOS finished at the bottom of the league. I like Gruden as a coach and a person. He is the type of coach you bring in to get your team over the hump. But he is not the type of coach you build a team with.

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#22 : April 20, 2011, 11:31:28 AM

I think his poor record down the stretch had less to do with his coaching and more to do with the players he and Allen were drafting.


While I agree the drafts were bad, the record was not "poor".   He went 9-7 his last 2 seasons winning the division one of them.   That's not exactly poor.  Especially considering the talent on the roster was marginal.   

Gruden is the kind of coach who can take his team and beat your team then turn around and take your team and beat his team.    He's a helluva coach.


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#23 : April 20, 2011, 11:35:59 AM

I think his poor record down the stretch had less to do with his coaching and more to do with the players he and Allen were drafting.


While I agree the drafts were bad, the record was not "poor".   He went 9-7 his last 2 seasons winning the division one of them.   That's not exactly poor.  Especially considering the talent on the roster was marginal.   

Gruden is the kind of coach who can take his team and beat your team then turn around and take your team and beat his team.    He's a helluva coach.

Hes also the type of coach that can loose the final four games of the season to miss the playoffs. Its also not the talent on the roster was marginal. I don't belive that at all. Especially considering he wanted most of the those players. He just didn't know how to bring in young talent to replace talent past their prime.

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#24 : April 20, 2011, 11:54:10 AM

I like Gruden as a person, I have no hard feelings. But, his track record in regards to QB's has sucked. I still think his knowledge is valuable to these young players because he does a great job of analyzing situations. I still am dumbfounded why he never addressed the QB situation while he was here, it was like he just wanted to patch it up and move on.   

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#25 : April 20, 2011, 11:59:25 AM

King had his chance while he was here. There was nothing there for Gruden to develop.

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#26 : April 20, 2011, 12:01:32 PM

Its also not the talent on the roster was marginal. I don't belive that at all. Especially considering he wanted most of the those players.

I agree with this quote 100%, it wasn't like he came in and had 1 year to fix all the problems, this team already had great players destined for great games. I'm not arguing that he lost players or let them go w/e but he did have chance to bring in new players while he was here and a lot of those players were well, pretty average or below average. I don't know if that is Allen's fault or Gruden but the fact is it wasn't like he didn't have a choice or time. He just never chose to fix this situation.



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#27 : April 20, 2011, 12:05:16 PM

i agrree with both of their arguments.

gruden failed at developing young qbs.

king sucked as a qb

both of them have great takes


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#28 : April 20, 2011, 12:16:07 PM

So is Shaun King basically stating that "Gruden couldn't develop a young QB including me"?

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#29 : April 20, 2011, 12:22:12 PM

Not a big fan of Gruden as our coach but a very good commentary guy. I dislike his ESPN segment with the QB's but whatever.

I have to give credit where its due. Didn't Gruden draft one of my favorites bucs, Josh Johnson?

Gruden's problem is that he is an old school coach and not all rookies seemed to take well to his hard knocks style of coaching. Ehhh, whatever

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