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BucsBay

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« #15 : April 27, 2011, 02:49:31 PM »

Bower's doctor said that his surgery while not full blown microfracture surgery had "elements" of it. One of the few NFL player I know of off hand who has played well for a period of time after microfracture surgery is Kellen Winslow. Here are some players who had it.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/09colstoninjury.php

Microfracture Surgery and NFL Players (Active and Retired)
Given that the information above focuses on all patients including your Average Joe, I thought it pertinent to take a look at the success rate in NFL players. Interestingly enough, a majority of the population consisted of non-skill position players or aging veterans. I'll walk through the players that I found and note the relevance of each.

•Kellen Winslow
In January 2007, Kellen Winslow had microfracture surgery on his knee at the age of 23. Winslow recovered quickly and had his best season as a pro in 2007 with 82 receptions, 1,160 yards, and five TDs. Very similar position to Colston and roughly the same age, which could be indicative of Colston's recovery. Two potentially indicative points to consider: 1) Winslow successfully returned to All-Pro form, and 2) Winslow recovered quickly after having surgery in January 2007.
•Stephen Davis
Davis had surgery in November 2004 at the age of 30. He played the following season in 13 games with 180 carries, 550 yards, and 12 TDs. He soon fizzled and retired, but that doesn't appear to be solely a result of his surgery after performing adequately in 2005. The contributing factor was more likely his career carries and the related wear and tear on his body. I can't say the surgery didn't impact his longevity (because I am sure it did), but the fact that he was 30 when the surgery was performed and had roughly 1,800 career carries, it carries less weight when comparing to Colston since Colston is still a very young NFL player/athlete. However, I will consider two items: 1) he successfully returned the season following surgery, and 2) his career was shortened.
•DeShaun Foster
Is there something in the Carolina water? In November 2002, Foster had microfracture surgery prior to having an NFL carry. Foster had the surgery at the age of 22, recovered and played in the 2003 season. Foster was never a phenomenal pro; he annually fell short of 1,000 yards rushing. This may be a result his lack of talent and not limitations as a result of the surgery, but we'll never know since the surgery was his rookie year. Two important points here: 1) He successfully returned from surgery (positive for Colston) at the age of 22, and 2) He recovered in approximately one year (a rather long time for recovery).
•Courtney Brown
Brown had two microfracture surgeries and three knee surgeries on his left knee (2002 and 2006 microfracture surgery). He successfully returned from his first surgery in 2003. However, he was never able to successfully return to the field after his second surgery in 2006. The second surgery was likely needed because the cartilage in the initial surgery wasn't as strong as true knee cartilage. This, as discussed above, is a long-term problem with the surgery. This comparison in particular is striking to me and will carry weight on two points: 1) He returned triumphantly after one surgery (2003 was a decent year for Brown), and 2) his second surgery ended his career after apparent deterioration in his knee.
•Fred Robbins
Another big man with microfracture surgery this offseason. He's still rehabbing and there's limited information available currently, except that he's no guarantee to be ready for training camp. Robbins is 32.
•Jeremy Newberry
Newberry had multiple microfracture surgeries. He had his first following the 2005 season on his right knee at the age of 29, missed the 2006 season and had another surgery on his left knee after the 2006 season. In 2007, he started and played in 14 games for the Raiders, more recently was a backup for the Chargers in 2008 starting three games (age 32), and signed with the Falcons this past offseason. Two important points again: 1) he was able to successfully return from his first surgery, and 2) these surgeries appear to have slowed his career down limiting him to a backup role at the age of 32.
•Patrick Jeffers
Jeffers had microfracture surgery in 2000 (he also tore his ACL at the same time) and his career was finished. He continued to have swelling/pain in his knee after playing his final game in 2000 at the age of 27. This is a tough one to consider since he also tore his ACL at the same time, but it's definitely troublesome that he never returned to play the WR position.
•Other Professional Athletes
What's so interesting is that there are a very limited number of NFL players who have undergone microfracture surgery. Amar'e Stoudamire, Jason Kidd, Kenyon Martin, Antonio McDyess and John Stockton all had microfracture surgery and successfully returned. Several other players, such as Chris Webber and Afernee Hardaway returned but were clearly limited by the surgery.

BucsBay

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« #16 : April 27, 2011, 02:51:31 PM »

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/664356-nfl-draft-2011-arizona-cardinals-rumors-news-and-speculation-week-3/entry/62700-nfl-draft-2011-daquan-bowers-knee-officially-a-serious-issue

                    Flanagan also explained in the statement that Bowers' procedure, performed by Dr. Larry Bowman, included some elements of microfracture surgery but was "very minor."

I don't know how you can have elements of microfracture surger but be very minor. Either you drilled holes or you didn't.

GameTime

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« #17 : April 27, 2011, 02:52:15 PM »

It was to trim down a tear to keep it from causing pain(similar to Antonio Bryants).

if what he had is similar to AB's im not sure i would draft him...

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« #18 : April 27, 2011, 02:52:26 PM »

tatmanfish, here's the thing. Everything you say is completely reasonable (though why you think Antonio Bryant's story should be comforting I don't know, since he never truly recovered). If that's all, then by all means the Bucs should strongly consider him.

That said, if he falls to 20, then everything we know "from all reports before the draft" is wrong, and it's probably not minor (maybe he's close to bone-on-bone, for example).

bradentonian

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« #19 : April 27, 2011, 02:52:40 PM »

similar to Antonio Bryant's



I'm not sure you are helping your argument there


bucfan26

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« #20 : April 27, 2011, 02:56:57 PM »

I don't want him. Too risky at #20. I'd rather have Clayborn who's had a productive career at Iowa if we don't trade up.


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« #21 : April 27, 2011, 03:11:25 PM »

Exactly!!!

Meniscus!!!

Taken care of long term fear of OA. Let me tell you this, all NFL players are at riske of early onset OA.

If all that was wrong was a posterior horn of the medial meniscus, sign this guy. That will not be a chronic problem. He is at the same risks as other players for additional injuries.

Still want Kerrigan but Jags got him.

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tatmanfish

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« #22 : April 27, 2011, 03:11:58 PM »

similar to Antonio Bryant's



I'm not sure you are helping your argument there

AB played in 11 games after the surgery, hurried his return and still had 39 reception for 600 yards with Lefty, JJ, and a rookie Freeman throwing the ball with no run game. He produced the year of his surgery. like I said, he rushed his return and it never fully healed.

As far as "microfracture like surgery"  procedure...i have no idea. microfracture surgey is where calcium is cleaned(from osteoarthritis). They then make fracture into the a bone plate and marrow and blood cells help create new cartilage cells. That would mean he already is experiencing osteoarthritis and has been for awhile. Not sure if theres any truth to it or if it was preventitive or what.

The younger the person is the better the success rate even in the worst case scenario. The biggest thing will be if it heals fully before he puts some decent wear and tear on it. If its just a meniscus, I say the worries should be fairrly low. If its actual micro fractur(not sure what "like" means), there some legitimate concern, but it depend to what extent. I dont believe that it was microfracture surgery being hes only 21 and just recently noticed the injury. If he had some other issues before this, id be more apt to believe the microfracture route.



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BucMyLife

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« #23 : April 27, 2011, 03:18:47 PM »

Who is this DeQuan Bowers that you speak of?

The quest for .500 begins...

BucNY

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« #24 : April 27, 2011, 03:20:43 PM »

Who is this DeQuan Bowers that you speak of?

He'll be your shiny new defensive toy for next year in about 36 hours.

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« #25 : April 27, 2011, 03:22:00 PM »

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/DaQuan-Bowers-on-reports-on-knee-Its-all-overblown-none-of-that-stuff-is-true.html

Talking football with Clemson defensive end
Aaron Wilson

APRIL 27, 2011, 02:50 PM EST

Clemson star defensive end Da'Quan Bowers visited the Minnesota Vikings, Cleveland Browns, Carolina Panthers, Denver Broncos, Buffalo Bills, Cincinnati Bengals, New England Patriots, Arizona Cardinals and the Tennessee Titans, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.

There were mixed reviews of his Pro Day workout from draft analysts, which was regarded by NFL scouts as displaying solid progress with the knee even though he wasn't in ideal shape yet as he works his way back into playing form.

Bowers was able to jump and cut normally. The 6-foot-3 1/2, 280-pounder turned in 40-yard dashes in the 4.9 range and had had a 34 1/2 inch vertical leap. He also posted a 4.34 to 4.4 short shuttle and a 6.95 three-cone drill.

He led the nation with 15 1/2 sacks last season.

Bowers won the Bronko Nagurski award as the top defensive player in the nation last season.

He was also named Atlantic Coast Conference Defensive Player of the Year, recording 63 tackles, 24 for losses and 17 quarterback pressures.

Bowers had three sacks in one game against Maryland and was named National Defensive Player of the Week.

He intercepted one pass and forced a fumble last season.

Bowers said he patterns his game after Julius Peppers. He has drawn comparisons to Reggie White and Bruce Smith.

National Football Post caught up with Bowers today for a wide-ranging telephone interview from his home in Bamberg, S.C.:

What's it like for you now that the draft is finally here?

Bowers: "I'm definitely ready to get it over with. The excitement hasn't set in yet. I'm definitely not nervous. You've got to wait and hope everything works out in your favor."

Bowers is ready to take the next step.
Is there a goal you've set for where you hope to be picked?

Bowers: "Honestly, I just want to be drafted first of all. Everybody would want to be the No. 1 overall pick. Just to be drafted is enough."

What kind of football player will the team that drafts you get?

Bowers: "They're going to be getting a competitor, a smart guy, a guy that wants to work hard and win."

What kind of personality will you bring to the locker room?

Bowers: "I'm a guy that's never had any off-the-field issues, no type of issues. I'm a laid-back kid. I'm not a troublemaker. If I'm not doing something with football, I'm home and taking it easy."

There have been a lot of reports that your stock is sliding and some draft analysts have said you won't have a long career because of your knee. What do you say about that?

Bowers: "I don't let it bother me. They don’t pick for teams. They get paid to make predictions. Organizations and staffs pick the players, not the analysts. I don't care if they say they don't get drafted.

"Mel Kiper and guys like that get paid to make up stories. They can sit around and do that. They don't make decisions. I don't really care. It doesn't bother me at all."

Bowers underwent surgery to repair a torn meniscus and was unable to work out at the NFL scouting combine or the original Clemson Pro Day. He says reports that he'll need microfracture surgery or that he'll be prone to arthritis are incorrect.

Bowers: "It's all overblown. None of that stuff is true. My knee wasn't as bad as people made it seem. I'm not going to dwell on that. The organizations know. They have every medical record. They know what type of player I am. My fillm speaks for itself. There's no reason for any team not to have me on their draft board."

Bowers played seven games with the injury, recording seven sacks and 15 tackles for losses after hurting his knee

Bowers: "My film speaks for itself, going up against the national champions against Auburn, against the No. 1 tackle in the draft, Anthony Castonzo from Boston College, powerhouse programs. If you turn on the film, I'm going to be one of the guys that jumps out at you. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing consistently. I'm not just strong, I'm fast. When they think I'm going to use speed. I'm going to go through you."

What's the fastest you ever ran the 40-yard dash?

Bowers: "At Clemson, I ran a 4.5. In high school, I ran a 4.48. I could run a 4.7 or a 4.6 now that I've had more time to train."

How much will you be dedicating your career to the late Gaines Adams?

Bowers: "Definitely a lot. Had it not been for him, I wouldn't be here right now. I wouldn't have had that mentor and big brother to give me that knowledge about the game."

Are you enjoying the draft experience?

Bowers: "It's been a fun experience. It's been a business, too. I go to meet with all these teams. I was on the road for three weeks straight. It's hard to tell what the teams are thinking. They were all very, very respectful of me."

What were your visits like with the Browns and Vikings?

Bowers: "I enjoyed my time there. I definitely loved it. They were very humble. I love the coaches there. They have a very good staff. It's like my hometown there. They love football. .. I definitely enjoyed my visit with Minnesota. I got to watch film with them and I fell in love with that defense. I would love to play for any of those places."

Why didn't you go to New York for the draft and why are you spending the draft back in Bamberg, S.C., your hometown?

Bowers: "I wanted my whole community to be a part of it. Bamberg has about 4,000, 5,000 people. We have one stoplight. I'm proud to be from there. My cousin, [Philadelphia Eagles player] Ricky Sapp, is from there, too."

How important is your faith to you?

Bowers: "My faith is everything. I rely on my faith to give me the answer to everything."

Bowers is heavily involved in music, playing the guitar in a gospel group.

How important is gospel musci to you?

"Music is important to me and I love it to death, but football comes first. Music comes second. Music is very important to me. It’s been in my family a long while, it’s the cause of me having most of the things I have in my life right now. I play guitar and I play drums and I sing background with the group also. I enjoy football and music."

Is it tough getting this much attention?

Bowers: "I think everyone in the world knows everything there is to know about me. I'm a private person, so that makes it tougher. I'm just ready to play some football."


Ramonb

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« #26 : April 27, 2011, 04:20:29 PM »

Someone said it before, if Bowers makes it to the 20th pick, it means his knee is trashed and we don't want him.  If his knees are not a major concern, he'll be gone long before we pick

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« #27 : April 27, 2011, 04:26:16 PM »

It'll be Dominik's first 1st round bust.

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« #28 : April 27, 2011, 04:33:19 PM »

If the guy that was projected to be the #1 pick all off season is still there at #20, then the knee is obviously serious or the first 19 teams would not all pass. We would be stupid to spend our first round pick on him.

Draft Aaron Donald



BucNY

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« #29 : April 27, 2011, 04:45:22 PM »

Adrian Peterson was a injury case and he turned out ok.

A guy who will go in top 5 and command $30 million gauranteed cannot have injuries prior. I don't think his knee will be a problem but you cannot take that chance with a high draft pick. At #20 you can say to yourself this is a very talented guy and his knee might be a small issue but it looks ok.

Above all you cannot pick a bust in the top 5.

Who knows, maybe we don't take him. He hasn't even visited us. I just get a feeling that he will be dropping significantly.

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