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Chief Joseph

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#30 : May 08, 2011, 06:50:21 PM

I think it's hilarious you are putting this much thought and effort into it.....stick to politics and religion over in the Cove. That seems to be your forte.

I did not read this comment, as I was not interested in it.


I just wanted you to know.


Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#31 : May 08, 2011, 07:51:29 PM

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d6186d/Rudd-forces-a-fumble

Crowder had his ankles and Jones wasnt down. Ruud got lower....plain and simple. How else would you explain him getting under jones to knock the ball out? Jones was moving forward as Crowder only had him by the ankles and he could of easily stretched the ball out for a TD if it wasnt for Ruud. The only thing that wasnt textbook is he didnt wrap up the ball carrier....he was going for the big hit. Not sure you watched the same vid.

you've got to be kidding me.   it was a nice play by ruud, but c'mon,   jones was tackled.  he was well on his way down.  he was getting no more yards. now jones could have stretched the ball out for a TD, so ruud gets credit for that.  but the way i see it is ruud saw a guy falling down and jumped at him.  and ruud ended up on top of jones, so i dont see how he was lower, level, sure.


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#32 : May 08, 2011, 07:56:15 PM

A T2 Mike traditionally is not used as a safety valve, but Morris must scheme around Ruud's strength, and that as another safety on the field.  The problem is, Tampa 2 mikes, surprise, are just like other 4-3 mikes and they must at times FILL either A gap.  Ruud not being able to fight blocks, I can forgive, but the inability to fill an A gap with aggressive down hill demeanor is unacceptable.  This is why I vehemently object to anyone that compares Ruud to Quarles.  Quarles despite weighing less than Ruud, filled his gap aggressively.  It was his aggressive display at SAM that prompted the team to experiment with him as the MIKE the following year.  We have seen glimpses of other LB's attacking down hill no problem, like Hayward, and McKenzie (That what he was known for at USF) with limited playing time last year for the Bucs.

Morris' scheme is not the Tampa 2, and he didn't scheme around Ruud, he schemed around our horrible defensive line. We don't play the 3-4 or the 3-3-5 because of Ruud. We don't blitz and play man more now because of Ruud either. We did it because outside of Gerald McCoy, our front four was atrocious. And the reason Ruud doesn't attack the A gap aggressively is because he is a two-gap defender in Morris' scheme. He doesn't attack any gap. He falls back.

If Hayward was better than Ruud, he would be starting over Ruud, and Ty McKenzie is a Ruud clone, for the most part. He's not a thumper.

Morris has said that his scheme is the Tampa 2.0 with his added wrinkles.

All 4-3 mikes are responsible for a gap, even if it is a one gap scheme like the Bucs run.  To suggest that Morris schemes around a Mike not filling a gap only reinforces my point, but let assume that is not the case.

Ruud does NOT fall back on every play!!!!   A Tampa 2 mike falls back when the defense called asks him to defend the pipe, in other words if it is a Tampa 2 coverage for example.  When it is cover 2, cover 3, or cover 1, Ruud should NOT be falling back.   

And where do you have the evidence that the Bucs most used coverage is Tampa 2?  Based on all evidence, it appears the trend since Monte was here, and Morris took over that cover 3 is the dominant coverage used by the Bucs, which means the MIKE LB is not defending the pipe a.k.a falling back.


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#33 : May 08, 2011, 08:01:53 PM

nice breakdowns adw.

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#34 : May 08, 2011, 09:18:50 PM

Those fans trying to make a case for Hayes or Black or Ruud have forgotten what it's like to have hardcore LBs like Brooks, Quarles, and Nickerson. They have become complacent and except these current mediocre back ups as starter quality. They will soon see there error of their ways.

It appears the debate is really which guy to replace first. It seems most agree that at least 2 of the three, if not all three need to go.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#35 : May 08, 2011, 09:23:22 PM

As someone already mentioned, reading it here and clicking on the JBF link are 2 totally different things.   Hits my man, it's all about hits.

....and at this point i'm gettin' pretty close to wantin' to hit somone :D

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#36 : May 08, 2011, 09:26:18 PM

Not directing this at anyone in particular.   But people still defend Ruud?   If he goes on the market, I really don't see a mad rush to sign him.

....and in a bizarre fashion I think this will have him back with the Bucs.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#37 : May 08, 2011, 09:27:41 PM

i just have a hard time believing that when morris schemes his perfect defense the MLB is just there in case the OLB's miss the tackle.

Well, he doesn't.  Morris schemes around his players weaknesses, including Ruud.  There's a reason he tried to hide his DE's most of the 2010 season by using the 3-3-5 so much - the same reason he just drafted 2 new DE's - the DE's sucked.



A T2 Mike traditionally is not used as a safety valve, but Morris must scheme around Ruud's strength, and that as another safety on the field.  The problem is, Tampa 2 mikes, surprise, are just like other 4-3 mikes and they must at times FILL either A gap.  Ruud not being able to fight blocks, I can forgive, but the inability to fill an A gap with aggressive down hill demeanor is unacceptable.  This is why I vehemently object to anyone that compares Ruud to Quarles.  Quarles despite weighing less than Ruud, filled his gap aggressively.  It was his aggressive display at SAM that prompted the team to experiment with him as the MIKE the following year.  We have seen glimpses of other LB's attacking down hill no problem, like Hayward, and McKenzie (That what he was known for at USF) with limited playing time last year for the Bucs.

Morris' scheme is not the Tampa 2, and he didn't scheme around Ruud, he schemed around our horrible defensive line. We don't play the 3-4 or the 3-3-5 because of Ruud. We don't blitz and play man more now because of Ruud either. We did it because outside of Gerald McCoy, our front four was atrocious. And the reason Ruud doesn't attack the A gap aggressively is because he is a two-gap defender in Morris' scheme. He doesn't attack any gap. He falls back.

If Hayward was better than Ruud, he would be starting over Ruud, and Ty McKenzie is a Ruud clone, for the most part. He's not a thumper.

Morris has said that his scheme is the Tampa 2.0 with his added wrinkles.

All 4-3 mikes are responsible for a gap, even if it is a one gap scheme like the Bucs run.  To suggest that Morris schemes around a Mike not filling a gap only reinforces my point, but let assume that is not the case.

Ruud does NOT fall back on every play!!!!   A Tampa 2 mike falls back when the defense called asks him to defend the pipe, in other words if it is a Tampa 2 coverage for example.  When it is cover 2, cover 3, or cover 1, Ruud should NOT be falling back.   

And where do you have the evidence that the Bucs most used coverage is Tampa 2?  Based on all evidence, it appears the trend since Monte was here, and Morris took over that cover 3 is the dominant coverage used by the Bucs, which means the MIKE LB is not defending the pipe a.k.a falling back.



Looks like ADW "hit the nail on the head" in this thread.


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#38 : May 09, 2011, 12:08:42 AM

Morris has said that his scheme is the Tampa 2.0 with his added wrinkles.

And what does that mean, exactly? How much does it resemble Dungy/Kiffin's Tampa 2? How are Ruud's responsibilities similar and different in each scheme? These are important questions that you haven't really answered. Rah's scheme is not the Tampa 2. It has some cover 2 calls that he incorporates, but we also play a lot of man and we blitz far more than we ever did under Kiffin.

All 4-3 mikes are responsible for a gap, even if it is a one gap scheme like the Bucs run.  To suggest that Morris schemes around a Mike not filling a gap only reinforces my point, but let assume that is not the case.

Ruud is responsible for A gap. But being responsible for the gap and attacking the gap are two different things. Morris rotates weak a lot, which allows Geno to be the run through player. The plus side of doing this is that it gives Geno a lot of big play opportunities. The weakness of it is that if Hayes takes a wrong angle or misses on the play, the C gap is left vulnerable to the big play, which is why Ruud falls back. When Geno or Quincy are asked to run through their gaps, Ruud basically becomes a two gap defender, having to cover the A gap AND the C gap. This means that he cannot attack either gap. He has to fall back to see which gap is going to be vulnerable. Morris explained this himself last season when asked about it by a reporter.

A lot of Barretts tackles come on our side of the line of scrimmage because of how we play him, Morris said. A lot of times he takes two steps and then falls back and we let (weakside linebacker) Geno (Hayes) or (strongside linebacker) Quincy (Black) be the run-through guys. What that means is that Barrett is kind of the catch-all failsafe guy. Well have some blitzes in there and some run fronts where hes going to hit the fullback in the backfield and things of that nature, but for the most part, hes usually the failsafe guy that protects the gaps when they come open. - Raheem Morris

Notice he said gaps. Plural, not singular.

Ruud does NOT fall back on every play!!!!   A Tampa 2 mike falls back when the defense called asks him to defend the pipe, in other words if it is a Tampa 2 coverage for example.  When it is cover 2, cover 3, or cover 1, Ruud should NOT be falling back.   

Since when does the MLB not fall back in the cover 2 or cover 3? It's not the deep middle coverage that's involved in the Tampa 2, but it's still dropping into zone. The first step in the Cover 2 or the Cover 3 by the MLB is a backpedal, my man.

And where do you have the evidence that the Bucs most used coverage is Tampa 2?  Based on all evidence, it appears the trend since Monte was here, and Morris took over that cover 3 is the dominant coverage used by the Bucs, which means the MIKE LB is not defending the pipe a.k.a falling back.

I never said they did run the Tampa 2 mostly. In fact, I believe I said the opposite. The Tampa 2 is just one situation where the MLB falls back. It's not the only one. Other situations would be if he were asked to cover two gaps in a run fit, or if we were zone blitzing, or if we were running pretty much any type of zone coverage. Newsflash! Those four scenarios make up probably about 90% of our snaps on defense.


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#39 : May 09, 2011, 02:44:08 AM

lol, so if Ruud hit the ball out with his shoulder while Jones was facing towards the ground, how was he not lower, underneath, or whatever you want to call it. If Jones falling down or not, he got lower than Jones and knocked the ball out.

And I believe CBW just dropped a bomb on some of these arguments.



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#40 : May 09, 2011, 06:14:16 AM

Your theory makes no sense. IF Ruud was playing within the Morris system at an exceptional level then the Bucs would have locked him up long term with a contract. They haven't and that speaks volumes.

I'm all for keeping Ruud at an affordable contract because if Foster was exceptional he would have been a 1st round selection. Starting a rookie at MLB scares me. I'd rather have foster at Will LB, Ruud @ MLB and Hayes @ Sam.

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#41 : May 09, 2011, 06:59:40 AM

lol, so if Ruud hit the ball out with his shoulder while Jones was facing towards the ground, how was he not lower, underneath, or whatever you want to call it. If Jones falling down or not, he got lower than Jones and knocked the ball out.
jones was sideways because crowder was swinging him down from the side.  ruud was level with jones and ended up on top of him because he also took him on from the side from the way the play was flowing.  its a dumb argument either way.  i really dont care.  it was a nice play by ruud, but i believe it had just as much to do with crowder setting him him.  and its not the rule for ruud, its the exception.

And I believe CBW just dropped a bomb on some of these arguments.

but this is a pretty solid comeback.

If Ruud was playing within the Morris system at an exceptional level then the Bucs would have locked him up long term with a contract. They haven't and that speaks volumes.

the thing is we as fans really dont know.  we dont know what dominik and morris have planned.  are they getting bigger on the DL to protect players like ruud?  or are they getting bigger on the DL because they are getting bigger and more physical everyhwere?  we'll find out soon enough!

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#42 : May 09, 2011, 08:29:55 AM

A young Ray Lewis could easily do what Ruud is doing, plus actually play like a beast in the run game. It's ridiculous to say that he couldn't play in our scheme.

Ray Lewis could play any LB spot in any scheme, period. Ray is one of the top 5 best MLB of all time and there is no comparison to Ruud. I like Ruud and I also agree he is all but gone, but lets be a little honest with ourselves. Before we got nailed with injuries and our D-line was starting to put it together Ruud was not a problem. Doesn't matter really, I like our young guys at MLB and we can spend a new contract money on someone else but Ruud was hated on for not being Ray Lewis. Not many people can ever play to that level. Truth is that most MLB are strong against the run and weak against the pass or vice versa.

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#43 : May 09, 2011, 04:57:26 PM

Yeah, but if he was any good the team would have tendered him like they did with Joseph and others. We don't want Ruud and I applaud the FO. Moot article.

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#44 : May 09, 2011, 05:10:22 PM

Ruud was tendered.....



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