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John Galt?

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« #135 : May 27, 2011, 01:26:59 PM »

Didn't Israel admit to launching a preemptive strike to start the war in 67?

yep, pretty much bragged about it. They launched air strikes against airfields in Jordan, Syria, and Egypt and caught all three by total surprise and virtually destroyed all 3s air forces.


Biggs3535

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« #136 : May 27, 2011, 01:44:54 PM »

Didn't Israel admit to launching a preemptive strike to start the war in 67?

yep, pretty much bragged about it. They launched air strikes against airfields in Jordan, Syria, and Egypt and caught all three by total surprise and virtually destroyed all 3s air forces.

Given the circumstances, what should they have done?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/5/newsid_2654000/2654251.stm

Quote
   
1967: Israel launches attack on Egypt
Israeli forces have launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt and destroyed nearly 400 Egypt-based military aircraft.

Fighting broke out on the Israel-Egypt border but then quickly spread to involve other neighbouring Arab states with ground and air troops becoming embroiled in battle.

Israeli Prime Minister Levi Eshkol said in a statement that the Egyptian Air Force had taken a great beating and Jordanian and Syrian air forces had been largely destroyed.

The attack follows a build-up of Arab military forces along the Israeli border.

The Arab states had been preparing to go to war against Israel with Egypt, Jordan and Syria being aided by Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Algeria.

On 27 May the President of Egypt, Abdel Nasser, declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

Egypt signed a pact with Jordan at the end of May declaring an attack on one was an attack on both. This was seen by Israel as a clear sign of preparation for all-out war.

The path for war was cleared on 16 May when President Nasser ordered the withdrawal of the United Nations Emergency Forces from the Egyptian-Israeli border.


John Galt?

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« #137 : May 27, 2011, 01:49:01 PM »

Does Hamas represent the entire Palestinian mindset on the issue? They are a singular faction. That would be like saying that every American shares the views of the Tea Party. But that aside, I think Mr. Morrissey may want to do some more homework...

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2011/05/04/as-hamas-fatah-sign-unity-pledge-meshal-calls-for-palestinian-state-in-1967-borders/
No - hamas doesn't represent the entire Palestinian mindset -

But Hamas does manage to get a near majority and got a decisive majority in the 2006 Palestinian elections. Hamas certainly gets significant support from most Palestinians. You have to remember, Hamas has built Hospitals and hundreds of medical clinics in the West Bank, made major improvements to infrastructure in the area, and has provided a better (from a Palestinian POV) sense of security. Israel has declined or failed to do any of these things in the 30 odd years that they ran the West Bank. From Yoeseph Six-pack's POV, Hamas has given him clinics and better HC, better roads, power and water, etc. while Israel has either ignored them or treated them like unwanted stepchildren, even built a big wall so they wouldn't have to look at them.

So Hamas doesn't represent the entire mindset of Palestinians, but the have done a good job of buying the majority.


CBWx2

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« #138 : May 27, 2011, 02:22:35 PM »

Does Hamas represent the entire Palestinian mindset on the issue? They are a singular faction. That would be like saying that every American shares the views of the Tea Party. But that aside, I think Mr. Morrissey may want to do some more homework...

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2011/05/04/as-hamas-fatah-sign-unity-pledge-meshal-calls-for-palestinian-state-in-1967-borders/
No - hamas doesn't represent the entire Palestinian mindset -

But Hamas does manage to get a near majority and got a decisive majority in the 2006 Palestinian elections. Hamas certainly gets significant support from most Palestinians. You have to remember, Hamas has built Hospitals and hundreds of medical clinics in the West Bank, made major improvements to infrastructure in the area, and has provided a better (from a Palestinian POV) sense of security. Israel has declined or failed to do any of these things in the 30 odd years that they ran the West Bank. From Yoeseph Six-pack's POV, Hamas has given him clinics and better HC, better roads, power and water, etc. while Israel has either ignored them or treated them like unwanted stepchildren, even built a big wall so they wouldn't have to look at them.

So Hamas doesn't represent the entire mindset of Palestinians, but the have done a good job of buying the majority.

Hamas holds majority in Gaza. Fatah still pretty much controls the West Bank. Also, as you've stated, loyalty to Hamas has more to do with the projects that they've undertaken, and not so much to do with a kinship of wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The majority of Palestinians, about 3 out of 4 in fact, support negotiations for a two state resolution.


dbucfan

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« #139 : May 27, 2011, 07:36:27 PM »

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

So you don't think Hamas members believe in the Hamas charter - 75% of them - where did you get that from?

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CBWx2

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« #140 : May 27, 2011, 09:08:40 PM »

75% of them - where did you get that from?

Said and Zemach said the “vast majority” of Palestinians and Israelis support a two-state solution, and believe as well that negotiated peace is essential. Some 71 percent of Palestinians and 77 percent of Israelis feel negotiations are “essential or desirable” and 78 percent of Palestinians and 74 percent of Israelis believe a peace agreement that leads to both states living side by side as good neighbors to be “essential or desirable.”

Read more: http://www.america.gov/st/mena-english/2009/July/200907021105032SAdemahoM0.6612164.html#ixzz1NbYZjBZi


dbucfan

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« #141 : May 27, 2011, 09:44:40 PM »

OneVoice performed the polls of Israelis and Palestinians - OneVoice is an organization trying to amplify moderate voices.  Seems most of Israelis and Palestinians are moderate on the issue of separate states - a tenet of OneVoice's organization.  It should all work out now.  Given more than 3 of 4 Israelis and Palestinians are in favor of the two state approach living side by side in harmony (i think that is pretty close to a OneVoice quote) the issues between Israelis and Palestinians should be over by what -the middle of next week, or at the latest by the time both groups have their next elections.
« : May 27, 2011, 09:46:31 PM dbucfan »

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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