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ISLAND BUCS

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#30 : June 12, 2011, 12:04:37 AM

I have a cat that I dearly love.

If I were to try and teach him simple algebra like X (squared) equals 25, I would fail.  It is not that I could try with a smarter cat.  The mind of any cat cannot grasp algebra.  Still he gets by,  He probably knows I can do things beyond his understanding, but he gets by.

Is it possible the human mind also has limitations.  Sure it is.  We can't go to a library and get a book on how to create a universe.  We intuitively know that there are things beyond the grasp of the human mind. But do we live Life. You bet we do.

Was Chirst an enlightened being, was Buddha an enlightened being.  Sure. But was Chirst a christian, was Buddha a buddist, no.  Religions are man's attempt to explain what is basically beyond the human mind.  It is natural to yearn for an explanation, but like the cat and algebra, the mind cannot know or grasp the divinity beyond the mind.

The Bible was codified about 300 years after the death of Christ.  Many things are factual, but there are some aspects that reflect the thinking of 300 AD. Imagine what the history, of say, the Vietnam war will look like in 2300. 

It is a bit of a jolt to think, that in the time of Chirst, that much of life in the middle east was tribal (like our Indians) and that it was about about 1300 years before it was accepted that the world was round.

This in no way is to destroy hope.  Just to help to realize that true happiness and true union with the Divine is not thru the mind, but by going beyond the mind.

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#31 : June 12, 2011, 04:48:46 AM


My cat says that he understands algebra, and he demands that you conform to his interpretation of it ...or you're going to burn in hell.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#32 : June 12, 2011, 07:00:18 AM

Mark 13:32-"However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows."

Also "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" implies he did not know all the details
JG, first let me start off that my little boy saw your squirrel and thinks he is "cool". Anyway Jesus knew hes purpose here on earth and why he was on the cross taking the sins of man upon himself . God Jehovah knew no sin. I think you may know all this but I can't let something stated for others to see without a response. Remember that Christ did not have to come to earth through the womb but did to be able to justify that he walked this world as a man/human not a spiritual know it all.

Please don't take this as argumentative just wanted to explain this as best as possible on a message board...OBD


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#33 : June 12, 2011, 07:36:19 AM

I have a cat that I dearly love.

If I were to try and teach him simple algebra like X (squared) equals 25, I would fail.  It is not that I could try with a smarter cat.  The mind of any cat cannot grasp algebra.  Still he gets by,  He probably knows I can do things beyond his understanding, but he gets by.

Is it possible the human mind also has limitations.  Sure it is.  We can't go to a library and get a book on how to create a universe.  We intuitively know that there are things beyond the grasp of the human mind. But do we live Life. You bet we do.

Was Chirst an enlightened being, was Buddha an enlightened being.  Sure. But was Chirst a christian, was Buddha a buddist, no.  Religions are man's attempt to explain what is basically beyond the human mind.  It is natural to yearn for an explanation, but like the cat and algebra, the mind cannot know or grasp the divinity beyond the mind.

The Bible was codified about 300 years after the death of Christ.  Many things are factual, but there are some aspects that reflect the thinking of 300 AD. Imagine what the history, of say, the Vietnam war will look like in 2300. 

It is a bit of a jolt to think, that in the time of Chirst, that much of life in the middle east was tribal (like our Indians) and that it was about about 1300 years before it was accepted that the world was round.

This in no way is to destroy hope.  Just to help to realize that true happiness and true union with the Divine is not thru the mind, but by going beyond the mind.


That is a reasonable if flawed summation of the human condition and the Christian Faith.
Man is the apex of Jehovah's creative genius. He created man with the ability to fully come to know Him and the free will to not. Jesus quoted from existing books (Genesis, Daniel, Isaiah, etc) that later became part of the Bible. The Bible contains 66 books by 40 authors written over 1500 years and mentions many other books (historical texts) that are not part of the Holy Cannon that we use today. The Bible is the ONLY religious book that offers up many archaeological, historical, & cultural specifics giving its critcs great opportunity to discredit it. The Bible states "God dwells above the circle of the Earth" and "Hangs the Earth upon nothing" - back when everyone thought the Earth was flat and held up by Atlas
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: June 12, 2011, 07:41:33 AM OneTruth

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#34 : June 15, 2011, 03:41:48 PM

many "true" Christian men that were priests have had deep disagreements with the Church. The Church does not speak for God. The Bible does...

John Galt?

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#35 : June 17, 2011, 06:48:27 PM

many "true" Christian men that were priests have had deep disagreements with the Church. The Church does not speak for God. The Bible does...
.

But the "Church" decided what is in the Bible and what was to be left out.


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#36 : June 17, 2011, 07:55:05 PM


Also "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" implies he did not know all the details

That really misses the point JG.

Jesus was the son of God manifested in the body in man. He, Jesus, knew what was coming and as a man went anyway. When he was in the Garden of Gethsemane he was clearly scared and not looking forward to what was coming, yet he did it anyway. When he was on the cross he was in a world of hurt, pain and fear, and despite being  the son of god but he was still experiencing those human sensations. That, IMO is what that statement is all about. God manifested in man. Then, at crunch time still he turned around and said, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." He accepted his fate.

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#37 : August 01, 2011, 07:10:44 AM

many "true" Christian men that were priests have had deep disagreements with the Church. The Church does not speak for God. The Bible does...
.

But the "Church" decided what is in the Bible and what was to be left out.
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That is true to a point. There was very specific criteria that had to met for a book to be included into the Holy Canon which became the Bible.
But if the church picked only their favorite parts why would they turn around and torture & murder anyone who tried to read for it for themself for 400 years?
Why did their own clergy including John Calvin, Martin Luther, and etc. condemn them for their behavior and teachings only to be "excommuncated and sent to hellfire" by the Pope?
If the church manufactured the Bible why would use every resource to keep it out of the public and in an unreadable language?
Simple logic answers those questions

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#38 : August 01, 2011, 11:28:26 PM

many "true" Christian men that were priests have had deep disagreements with the Church. The Church does not speak for God. The Bible does...
.

But the "Church" decided what is in the Bible and what was to be left out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is true to a point. There was very specific criteria that had to met for a book to be included into the Holy Canon which became the Bible.
But if the church picked only their favorite parts why would they turn around and torture & murder anyone who tried to read for it for themself for 400 years?
Why did their own clergy including John Calvin, Martin Luther, and etc. condemn them for their behavior and teachings only to be "excommuncated and sent to hellfire" by the Pope?
If the church manufactured the Bible why would use every resource to keep it out of the public and in an unreadable language?
Simple logic answers those questions

They didn't. This is not true, OT. The reason that the Bible was not translated into other languages early on was because in the Dark Ages, pretty much every language was unreadable. Very few people in the Middle Ages could read or write in any language. The only people that could read in those times were usually monks and clergymen, who were taught to read and write in Latin as well as their own language. So basically, translating a Bible to English for English people to read would have been a waste of time, because the only Englishmen that could read it could read Latin as well. But in the later part of the Dark Ages (around the 11th century), the Catholic church actually did allow the Bible to be translated. There were Bibles found in Spanish, Italian, Danish, French, Norwegian, Polish, Bohemian, English, and Hungarian that date back to the Middle Ages.

And ironically, John Calvin's original writings were done in Latin, not French, which was his native tongue. And when Martin Luther translated the Bible into German, he opted to leave certain parts of the Old Testament out. He essentially edited the Bible to what he himself viewed as the inspired word of God, and omitted portions that he found disagreeable. This "editing" actually stuck with nearly all Protestant versions of the Bible, and as a result, the Protestant Bibles of today actually have less original canon in them than the Catholic Bible does. Even the Protestant reformers were not completely lacking in hypocrisy.


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#39 : August 02, 2011, 12:16:13 AM

Just to expound on the previous post, this is the link to an exert from a book titled Where We Got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church, by Rev. Henry G. Graham, who describes how there were translated versions of the Bible written by Caedmon and the Venerable Bede dating back to the 7th and 8th century.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm#CHAPTER XI


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#40 : August 02, 2011, 06:44:36 AM

the Catholic Church - our debt to it???? lol

The single worst entity on the face of the earth and we owe it a debt of gratitutde? no thx

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#41 : August 06, 2011, 02:56:56 PM

the Catholic Church - our debt to it???? lol

The single worst entity on the face of the earth and we owe it a debt of gratitutde? no thx
Have you forgotten the Catholic Church before Rome got hold of it?...OBD


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#42 : August 06, 2011, 04:56:04 PM

OBD - youre right sir. But I am speaking of the last 1400 years and the current situation - they are the seat of Satan IMO at this point in time.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFuelProject?blend=11&ob=5#p/u/63/221sYyagu2I

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFuelProject?blend=11&ob=5#p/u/62/pSK5GYUOB5I

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFuelProject?blend=11&ob=5#p/u/61/7CFEMLzclXY

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#43 : August 07, 2011, 08:41:45 AM

OBD - youre right sir. But I am speaking of the last 1400 years and the current situation - they are the seat of Satan IMO at this point in time.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFuelProject?blend=11&ob=5#p/u/63/221sYyagu2I

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFuelProject?blend=11&ob=5#p/u/62/pSK5GYUOB5I

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFuelProject?blend=11&ob=5#p/u/61/7CFEMLzclXY
And you are right in expressing your opinion. I see that in a different way just as a stepping stool like many other religions. We are to garner a Relationship through solid teaching and studying the Bible but not through contorting or twisting it to our own interpretations. Not saying that you are but you do slap alot of meat on the table raw and then try to make it as milk. Slow down...JMVHO...OBD


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#44 : August 07, 2011, 10:29:40 AM

You are darned patient OBD.  I envy that trait.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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