Gruden never went 3 years in a row without making the playoffs

[NovaBuc]

Raheem's first winning season came in his second year. Gruden took three to get his. Raheem wins.

[JDog]

Considering Al Davis is a totally different type of situation and that Morris would have gone 0-16 both seasons he's been coach if he went to Oakland to coach, you can only consider their years with the Bucs.   Gruden did this his FIRST year with the Bucs.

[JDog]

One word.............DEFENSE

So you are saying Raheem sucks?   He's in charge of the defense.

[The Anti-Java]

One word.............DEFENSE

So you are saying Raheem sucks?   He's in charge of the defense.

They dont have the horses on defense yet like they do on offense.  But they took a step in that direction this last draft.  You did pay attention to the last draft  right?

[JDog]

Ya, they got Stocker.   Good pick up.

[Beatles123]

I'll make you a deal Java...if Raheem and the Bucs makes the playoffs in 2011, in any fashion, regaurdless of WHO they beat or how they beat them (They'll have to go through a tough devision to make it there), I want you to shush and start supporting the team again. if he DOESN'T, I will personaly proclaim you as RIGHT, R-I-G-H-T, for as long as i post here for the next season.

Seriously, my signature will Read "ALL HAIL JAVA, KING OF BUCCANEERS FACT! ALL BUT GRUDEN MUST PERISH!"

You can'y make excuses though, no saying "This and this got them there, not Raheem." You have to be willing to admit that the team HE and Dom built MADE THE PLAYOFFS.

If you win, i will NEVER question you again. but if i win...you come back into the fold and admit you were wrong.

It's a fair deal! If you believe Morris is so bad, you have nothing to worry about.

We can negotiate these terms if you wish

I'M ALL IN, BABY!

[The Anti-Java]

I'll make you a deal Java...if Raheem makes the playoffs, in Any fashion,  regaurdless of WHO they beat or how they beat them (They'll have to go through a touvh devision to make it there), I want you to shush and start supporting the team again. if he DOESN'T, I will personaly proclaim you as RIGHT, R-I-G-H-T, every single day for as long as i post here for the next season.

Seriously, my signature will Read "ALL HAIL JAVA, KING OF BUCCANEERS FACT! ALL BUT GRUDEN MUST PERRISH!"

You can'y make excuses though, no saying "This and thiss got them there, not Raheem." You have to be willing to admit that the team HE and Dom build MADE THE PLAYOFFS.

If you win, i will NEVER question you again. but if i win...you come back intp the fold and admit you were wrong.

It's a fair deal! If you believe Morrisis so bad, you have nothing to worry about.

We can negotiate these terms if you wish

I'M ALL IN, BABY!

You can'y make excuses though



Impossible.  That is the essence of the J man.

[Beatles123]

^ I fixed that spelling goof, lol.

NO! I mean it! I'm willing to put my faith in this regime on the line! C'mon Java, what say you? We can agree to negotiate

[Beatles123]

Also, let it be known that the edits i made were not to change the terms, but to better word my post. I WILL live up to any conditions.

[NovaBuc]

Considering Al Davis is a totally different type of situation and that Morris would have gone 0-16 both seasons he's been coach if he went to Oakland to coach, you can only consider their years with the Bucs.   Gruden did this his FIRST year with the Bucs.

 What Gruden did in his first year with the Bucs was great and I'll always thank and respect him for that, but you absolutely can compare the two in their first head coaching jobs. Moving the goal posts is idiotic. And considering that in Gruden's first two years in Oakland, the division was the equivalent of last year's NFC West, I'd call BS on Raheem not winning any games his first two seasons. Hell, in 1999 Seattle won the AFC west with a 9-7 record. The year before only Denver had a winning record. Richard Williamson couldn't go winless as the Oakland coach in those years. In Gruden's third year when he went 12-4, he was lucky enough to play nine games against some of the worst teams in the NFL. That's nine games against teams that *earned* draft picks in the top twelve. Four games played against teams in the top five! He played San Diego twice, that year's version of the 2010 Panthers (except the Panthers won twice as many games). Gruden, the offensive guru, against the worst Chargers team *ever* won two games against them by a combined five points. He won 9-6 and 15-13.

 Gruden was the right coach at the right time back in 2002,however I think he became a victim of his initial success. He couldn't break out of the idea that he needed veterans to win. Outside of Caddy, who he had a man-crush on, he couldn't trust any young offensive player unless injuries or circumstances forced him to play them. And then it always seemed to be done reluctantly. I'll thank him until the day I die for winning that championship for us, but the direction the team is taking now under Morris and Dominik is much better in that they are thinking long-term rather than short term as Gruden needed to do with his penchant for wanting veterans, and at times leaving them in when it was obvious a change was needed (Gramatica anyone?).

 By the way, your bias is showing again. Might want to cover that up.

[Dy-nasty D]

IMO, coaching was never Gruden's problem. His problem was being short sighted and impatient.

And I don't know if he played GM or that bozo Allen did, but between the two of them, they sucked at evaluating talent.

[VinBucFan]

This is the "I AM SO LONELY" thread

[Beatles123]

My offer to java stands firm.

FIRM AS THE FOUNDATION OF THIS GREAT TEAM!

But seriously, Java, the ball's in your court!

[cyberdude558]

It's not about patching things up every year and trying to sneak into the playoffs yet another year.

Since when is winning your division considered "sneaking into the playoffs?"

So if Raheem wins the NFC South this year....it means he "snuck in?"

[Benchwarmer#1]

Do I expect more? Yes. Do I think Rah was brought here under the assumption he would be better suited to "build" rather than be a "great HC?" Yes also. However, after directly speaking to him, he is smart enough to become a better HC rather than just a steppingstone for another team after he builds this one up.

With the holes the previous regime left Tampa I have a hard time blaming Rah if they barely miss playoffs again. It was just that bad. Gruden left the shelf bare for ANY HC, let alone a new HC. Now, that's not all on Gruden as I believe Allen was more than horrible at evaluating and loved singing to the oldies (just like @ the skins). Their RB group is a good example. Rather than worry about the future Gruden and Allen worried about quick fixes in has-beens or never-were's (like Garcia), which never have a good shelf life or marketing advantage. A player that is a backup somewhere else and is aged won't do that for a team. A player that is homegrown and young/talented will.

I site LeBron of the NBA as an example. The Cav's knew the second he left that they were going to be bad and would lack "homegrown" real talent, not to mention, they loved him. He made a TON of money for that team while he was there, love him or hate him. Point is, to the average Cav's fan, he WAS the team and that's what made them money.

This is exactly why I don't understand why you can't jump aboard. The Glazers are trying only to recreate what some of the great teams have done. I also thought it was horrible how they let JGru go, but in the future it might pay off in spades.