Gruden never went 3 years in a row without making the playoffs

[blind melon]

Well I think Playoffs next season is about as likely as it was last season. Which is pretty darn close. They are still the youngest team in football, but are on the rise. I think nobody should be surprised with a playoffs birth next season and nobody should be surprised if we dont make it. The team has plenty of talent so making the playoffs isnt far from reality. I think last season they showed that hard work gets wins. I think if they keep working as hard as they have the talent level will show and they will get wins. They still have to grow up a little I think though. The defense is younger than the offense now and they will have some growing pains. The thing is that its going to take time for the real potential to be there. I think the only way Raheem gets fired after next season would be 6-10 season or anything below that. This team is better than that. I dont see that happening though. Not with Freeman at QB. Also not with the effort the team put forth for Raheem and Co last season. No reason to see that will be different.

Im on the fence with Playoffs, only because of the youth on the team. Also the comparison of teams that Gruden had and Raheem have had are not even comparable. Experience and lack of experience in the nfl will be deciding factors. Even though Gruden teams may not have had the same amount of talent that these Raheem teams have had. The Gruden teams had ton of experience and knew how to win in the NFL. Thats what Gruden loved. Its not a bad formula either for playoff appearances. Problem is the continuity and consistency to play in a full season just as well at the end as you would in the beginning. With older players thats quite tough. Also with Gruden teams, he never wanted to start the team over from scratch to get that consistency. I also think its fair to say that the fans never wanted that in Tampa. Which is a good reason why people have abandoned ship. So Gruden never wanted to risk that. Now with Raheem the Glazers have taken that risk and said "Ok, were gonna take a risk here with Raheem and start the team fresh." Do what we did here before but with a coach that players love and we will draft well to get there again." We may lose fans in the process but we will get them back with a fresh team. This is the plan right now and its in full swing right now as were seeing the guys draft as well as ever. The next step is putting it on the field. As far as Raheem goes he has a little time to do that. Where it may be unfair to Gruden that he never got that shot. It could very well be argued that its his own damn fault that he never chose to do that. While I understand that the fans may have been all over him and the media as well, its just a risk that sometimes needs to happen if you want a consistent winner.

 The Glazers have taken that risk with Raheem and they have been pretty succesful with that so far. Just need to take that next step. Playoffs are part of that. I say that Playoffs this season are not out of the question. However the season after that (2012) they should be expected. This season (to me) is another learner for the team. As people have said that they havent played anybody yet, well they need to because that only makes the team better. Look at when they played the steelers and Saints earlier this season. Big learning experiences for them. After those games you saw a totally different team. The good teams teach the other teams how to do it. Its just up them to follow through with it. The bucs did and they just need to continue learning. They will get there. With Raheem or without. Theres too much talent on the team not to. Personally I dont care who the (censor) coach is. Just want to see my Bucs win.

Quoted to get back on topic.

Good stuff.

[NotDeadYet]

     I'll just say the Glazers appear to know what they are doing in their tenure as the owners of the Bucs.
    Their first gutsy move was to fire Dungy, a popular and well respected man, then did some heady maneuvering with Al Davis to land Jon Gruden as our HC over GM McKay's choice of Marvin Lewis. That proved to be the RIGHT move as Gruden immediately took us to a Super Bowl victory.   
     Unfortunately trouble was soon brewing again and before long GM Rich McKay, another popular man locally, was replaced. Gruden's flaws began to emerge as one by one our veteran players over time reached retirement and were not being replaced by young up-and-coming players to make the Bucs the perennial contender the Glazers were looking for. It was time for a makeover, and I don't doubt the Glazers were weary of the volume of FO and coaching personnel who had already moved to other NFL cities after deserved promotions. Raheem was not only well-known in the Bucs circle, but in other NFL cities as well. We had already promoted him to DC, but after he got an interview to be HC in Denver, I'm sure the Glazers were concerned they might well lose him too. When Raheem failed to land the Denver HC gig, he returned and the Glazers made the call to offer him the Bucs HC position, despite his inexperience.
     Raheem grew tremendously from year 1 to year 2 as a HC;  With all the injuries last year, he and his staff did an amazing job of getting us to being a tie-breaker away from the playoffs last year. The eventual Super Bowl winners had the identical regular season record we did...  I am eager to see what year 3 brings!

[Detrimental]

Gruden never made the playoffs without a top 10 defense. He was good at using players that fit their strengths offensively, and prepared the team in most Sundays but other than that his playcalling and ability to find players other than the ones he already inheirted was horrific. You can't compare his first three years with Morris, its apples and oranges. Most of the players Gruden had were in their prime already and established save Caddy.

[Feel Real Good]

I'm not reading the first 9 pages of this thread, but Gruden wasn't fired for making the playoffs or not making the playoffs. He was fired for never being able to sustain a winning team. The last time a Gruden team went to the playoffs in back-to-back seasons was 2000-2001 in Oakland.

[1sparkybuc]

Gruden DID go 6 years in a row without winning a playoff game. Fortunately for us, the Glazers decided against letting him make it 7.

I truly believe Raheem will never go 3 years in a row without making the playoffs. The Bucs will win playoff games too, not just get there and lose.

[VinBucFan]

I'm not reading the first 9 pages of this thread, but Gruden wasn't fired for making the playoffs or not making the playoffs. He was fired for never being able to sustain a winning team. The last time a Gruden team went to the playoffs in back-to-back seasons was 2000-2001 in Oakland.

Exactly, that is what makes all the Gruden talk so funny.  Gruden is long gone people.

[anterrabae33]

I think it's a perfectly valid topic to ask if Raheem should be fired if he doesn't make the playoffs.   Supposedly this team is solid throughout the roster now.   They just went 10-6.   If they go 6-10 in 2011, doesn't that show poor coaching?

I get it...like going 12-4 and then going 7-9.

[Hate]

Though i have the original poster on ignore, regretfully I had to look to see what was worthy of 10 pages.....i'm still lookin'.

[Chief Joseph]

And before I post this, Illuminator, I am not talking directly to you. I'd hate to speak for jdog, but I think he's man enough to fight his own battles.

You really don't get it, do you? I don't give a damn about Java. What I do care about is people (particularly me) being able to post their opinion without having to conform to the standards of a bunch of nitwits. And, let's face it, the majority of the posters on this board are nitwits. The aforementioned nitwits are actively inviting increased censorship, in order to avoid having to view opinions that don't agree with their own. This is what I am defending against, not for anyone (other than myself).

You look like you're trying to be his sidekick or something and your attempts to defend aren't great anyway.

How fortunate for me that I could not possibly care any less what you think I look like.

[VinBucFan]

Though i have the original poster on ignore, regretfully I had to look to see what was worthy of 10 pages.....i'm still lookin'.

The question is do we have 10 pages of Gruden talk on a Java post because: a) it's the offseason and people are bored or b)  we have a bunch of idealist on the board or c) we have a lot of stupid people on the board?

[Bschucher]

And before I post this, Illuminator, I am not talking directly to you. I'd hate to speak for jdog, but I think he's man enough to fight his own battles.

You really don't get it, do you? I don't give a damn about Java. What I do care about is people (particularly me) being able to post their opinion without having to conform to the standards of a bunch of nitwits. And, let's face it, the majority of the posters on this board are nitwits. The aforementioned nitwits are actively inviting increased censorship, in order to avoid having to view opinions that don't agree with their own. This is what I am defending against, not for anyone (other than myself).

You look like you're trying to be his sidekick or something and your attempts to defend aren't great anyway.

How fortunate for me that I could not possibly care any less what you think I look like.

And this is where YOU don't get it.. This guy has spent a long time now not posting opinions but flat out trolling. If you don't see that then you are simply blind. Damned near everyone else on these boards recognizes the difference between someone putting out their opinion and someone just plain trolling.

[JDog]

I think it's a perfectly valid topic to ask if Raheem should be fired if he doesn't make the playoffs.   Supposedly this team is solid throughout the roster now.   They just went 10-6.   If they go 6-10 in 2011, doesn't that show poor coaching?

I get it...like going 12-4 and then going 7-9.

If Raheem had won the superbowl last year, no way should he be fired.   However, he didn't even make the playoffs!    Hell, if he even had made the playoffs last year, I'd say he gets a pass as well.   The only reason they won 10 games last year was due to a weak schedule.   The Saints and Falcons also had the benefit of weak schedules but were better teams than the Bucs so they finished ahead of the Bucs.     "Supposedly", this current team is stocked with young talent, not aging veterans.   They should be on the way up, not down.   Right?

[nybuccguy]

It does not matter what teams you play.

You really believe there is no difference between playing the Patriots and playing the Panthers?

Not really...with as many rookies as we started, and as many key injuries we had...we should have gotten schooled consistently.   I would say for the last 5 weeks of the season we were the least talented defensive team in the NFL.  We had exactly 1 high quality Defensive starter on the field...Barber. 

Raheem did a hell of a job last year, and you should just grow up and admit you were wrong about him or...as I have said before...go be a donkey's fan so you can swing from Tebow's sack with impunity.

Your racism is very transparent.  Not to mention your comments about "Get a coach / players we fans can relate to", your hating on Raheem (heemy / radio?!?!?!) even though he is both HC and DC, and we had an above average D using a bunch of rookies, back ups, and waiver wire pick ups makes it clear, especially in contrast to your praise of Gruden, even though he did not win a single playoff game in his last 7 years as HC...even in 2003 -2004 when he had the most talented roster in the NFL.  Also revealing is your sack riding of Sanchez, who is the definition of mediocre, while bashing on Freeman who had a QB rating of 95, and has like 7 4th Q comebacks in his first 24 games as starter, and is by all accounts just a outstanding leader, team representative, and person in general.

Maybe you should lay off the stormfront / Klan / tea party discussion forums, and get out of the house...you do not need to be afraid of people because they look or speak differently than you.

You forgot to mention Javas opinion of the draft. The only draft pick of ours that Java liked was our TE in the 4th round.  But Im sure that has everything to due with Stockers potential and not the fact he is the only white player we selected.

[anterrabae33]

I think it's a perfectly valid topic to ask if Raheem should be fired if he doesn't make the playoffs.   Supposedly this team is solid throughout the roster now.   They just went 10-6.   If they go 6-10 in 2011, doesn't that show poor coaching?

I get it...like going 12-4 and then going 7-9.

If Raheem had won the superbowl last year, no way should he be fired.   However, he didn't even make the playoffs!    Hell, if he even had made the playoffs last year, I'd say he gets a pass as well.   The only reason they won 10 games last year was due to a weak schedule.   The Saints and Falcons also had the benefit of weak schedules but were better teams than the Bucs so they finished ahead of the Bucs.     "Supposedly", this current team is stocked with young talent, not aging veterans.   They should be on the way up, not down.   Right?

That's right. You got any proof that they aren't?

[JDog]

The proof will be this year.   If they regress, it's not because they have less talent, so maybe it's a good idea to replace Raheem and get a coach in here to take those players into the playoffs and maybe more.   But if they make the playoffs this year, go a head and sign Raheem to a 5 year deal.