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spartan

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« #30 : June 15, 2011, 09:34:02 PM »

The US National Debt has risen steadily for over thirty years now.  We haven't had a single year where the debt decreased.  It doesn't matter whether its a Democrat or republican in the White House the debt just keeps rolling upwards.  In fact the only president that has somewhat controlled the national debt was actually a democrat.  The current accelerated rise in the debt was started under GW Bush, and whining about Obama is hilarious to say the least.

Sure the US is in a awful financial position but if history is anything to go by changing political party will not change that fact one bit.

Contract with America?

I don't dispute anything you said, but I am thinking the wave of idealistic Republicans that entered Congress in 1997 helped a lot. They were not yet corrupted by the establishment. That slowly but surely changed, but those first years .....

ONEBIGDADDY

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« #31 : June 15, 2011, 09:40:29 PM »

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2011-05/27/content_12589052.htm
After reading that China ain't so great after all. They have the same problems we do...OBD




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« #32 : June 15, 2011, 11:18:38 PM »

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2011-05/27/content_12589052.htm

Yes, it's always a good idea to dig deeper when the gov. throws out numbers/ stats. Many in the know would say China actually owns over a trillion & US banks holding the debt in the shuffle w/ the Fed is troublesome, but found this to be of interest:

Quote
http://oregonbusinessreport.com/2011/05/debt-chart-how-much-does-each-nation-own-of-america/

Debt chart: How much does each nation own of America (see chart in link -USBEA says China owns 20.4%)

May 26, 2011

By Oregon Tax News,

The United States has not seen a balanced budget since 2001, leading to increasing national debt. Although private banks in the U.S. hold the majority of the country’s debt, over 52% according to MSNBC, the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve Board estimate that foreign governments hold 4.4 trillion of the country’s $14 trillion debt in Treasury securities. The U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis estimates that Mainland China owns $891.6 billion of the U.S.’s debt. Even Russia owns $106.2 billion.

The United States auctions off treasury securities every three months. This length of time gives the Treasure enough time to figure out how much money it will need to pay off the old debt and cover the cost of increased spending. Buyers have the option to make a competitive bid at the auction, which allows the buyer to ask for a specific rate, or a non-competitive bid, in which the buyer agrees to accept the average rate of other winning bids.

Although this system currently sustains the United States, many economists worry how long the United States can survive on a so-called “IOU” system.

dbucfan

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« #33 : June 16, 2011, 06:27:04 AM »

Digging deeper uncovers the same information mtn.  Largest holder of US debt - the US. 

Chinese are bothered because of the dollars' loss of value/worth making the dollar the receive as payment on the debt less valuable than the dollar the lent the US. (similar to the manner in which they manipulate their own currency I suspect)

And the problem remains - the budget imbalance requires the US government continue borrow money to make end meet.  The lack of a market to sell the debt could well be a problem for the US government. 


\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CBWx2

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« #34 : June 16, 2011, 08:16:06 AM »

The US National Debt has risen steadily for over thirty years now.  We haven't had a single year where the debt decreased.  It doesn't matter whether its a Democrat or republican in the White House the debt just keeps rolling upwards.  In fact the only president that has somewhat controlled the national debt was actually a democrat.  The current accelerated rise in the debt was started under GW Bush, and whining about Obama is hilarious to say the least.

Sure the US is in a awful financial position but if history is anything to go by changing political party will not change that fact one bit.

Contract with America?

I don't dispute anything you said, but I am thinking the wave of idealistic Republicans that entered Congress in 1997 helped a lot. They were not yet corrupted by the establishment. That slowly but surely changed, but those first years .....

They also pushed for free trade agreements and the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Both have proven disastrous and have contributed greatly to the debt crisis.


BucBalla85

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« #35 : June 16, 2011, 08:22:39 AM »

Thats what liberal spending will do for you. Cant expect to spend that much money and not be in a bigger jam than before.

ONEBIGDADDY

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« #36 : June 16, 2011, 05:15:39 PM »

Thats what liberal spending will do for you. Cant expect to spend that much money and not be in a bigger jam than before.
Do you mean the spending from 2001 to 2011? That would cover more than Liberals....JMO...OBD


CBWx2

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« #37 : June 16, 2011, 05:20:51 PM »

Thats what liberal spending will do for you. Cant expect to spend that much money and not be in a bigger jam than before.
Do you mean the spending from 2001 to 2011? That would cover more than Liberals....JMO...OBD

Perhaps he meant the spending from 1981 to 1989.


dbucfan

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« #38 : June 16, 2011, 05:36:28 PM »

Thats what liberal spending will do for you. Cant expect to spend that much money and not be in a bigger jam than before.
Do you mean the spending from 2001 to 2011? That would cover more than Liberals....JMO...OBD
That would require classifying "W" as something other than a liberal - which would spark a debate.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CBWx2

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« #39 : June 16, 2011, 06:02:17 PM »

Thats what liberal spending will do for you. Cant expect to spend that much money and not be in a bigger jam than before.
Do you mean the spending from 2001 to 2011? That would cover more than Liberals....JMO...OBD
That would require classifying "W" as something other than a liberal - which would spark a debate.

He wasn't.


dbucfan

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« #40 : June 16, 2011, 08:19:30 PM »

Not a liberal from your standpoint - but heck - you think Obama is in the middle... LMAO

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CBWx2

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« #41 : June 16, 2011, 08:55:44 PM »

Not a liberal from your standpoint - but heck - you think Obama is in the middle... LMAO

If by your standpoint G.W. Bush is a liberal, I suppose Richard Nixon and Dwight Eisenhower would be a Marxists.


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« #42 : June 16, 2011, 09:18:44 PM »

Is somebody trying to make the argument Bush wasn't fiscally liberal in his policies?  If Bush was fiscally liberal, what was he?


CBWx2

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« #43 : June 16, 2011, 09:41:54 PM »

Is somebody trying to make the argument Bush wasn't fiscally liberal in his policies?

Yes. The fact that he spent money doesn't make him a fiscal liberal. No social liberal would have spent a dime on 99% of what Bush spent money on, and a big portion of his deficits were caused by his tax cuts, a conservative ideal.

If Bush was fiscally liberal, what was he?

He was a neo-conservative. A Reagan-Republican, if you will. Reagan was the first president to blow up the debt, and Bush liked it so much that he followed almost the exact same game plan, including recycling many of those in the Reagan cabinet.


Biggs3535

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« #44 : June 16, 2011, 10:07:02 PM »

The fact that he spent money doesn't make him a fiscal liberal.

Is this serious?



a big portion of his deficits were caused by his tax cuts, a conservative ideal.

Yes, and the sky is purple.

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