Our OT's -- Not Good

[Biggs3535]

So we're back to the PFF conspiracy against the Bucs, huh?  Why are the Bucs OL graded differently by PFF than every other team in the NFL?  Did Donald Penn, Davin Joseph, Jeremy Trueblood, Jeff Faine and company gangbang their girls or something?

Maybe, just maybe your definition of "stonewalled" and "throwing around" don't match-up to what other people would consider those things.

PFF openly admits that they use a best guesstimate system with many of their grades. The say they dont know all the protection and play calls and that they dont know the assignments. They use best judgement to come with many of their equations. Thats why I always say take their assesments with a grain of salt. Their numbers could be relevant or they could be completely off. more of a fun reference site, not really something to use to form a concrete opinion.

Does this address why the Bucs are somehow graded on tougher scale than the other 31 teams in the league?

The point is, however good or bad anyone feels PFF is at grading Offensive Linemen - they grade all 32 teams the same way.

[dbucfan]

So - if you make a mistake 32 times... lol

The larger issue in the evaluation you guys like so much is that we are on our third or 4 OC and Oline coaching group - and there hasn't been a huge outcry from anyone on the staff or FO as regards lack of talent or performance - bucs aren't drafting or signing FA Olinemen.  Sure is strange.

[Biggs3535]

So - if you make a mistake 32 times... lol

Ignoring Bucs players, which rankings do you disagree with? Are Jake Long, Joe Thomas, and D'Brickashaw Ferguson not generally considered the three best left tackles in the NFL? Would Brandyn Dombrowski, Levi Brown, and Frank Omiyale not generally be considered among the worst?

[Detrimental]

It doesn't take numbers to know the obvious. Anybody that watched the Buccaneers last year could tell you that Trueblood, Lee, and Penn were at BEST mediocre. They are solid, nothing really stands out about those players, and they aren't really long-term solutions except by default due to many other important needs the past three years. So while some of you try to discredit the validation of these sites it doesn't even matter if you missed the games entirely to even form your own opinion. Because had you paid any attention, you would've noticed Freeman or Blount having to pull a hoduni like play to save face of the OLINE at least 3 or 4 times a game throughout the whole 16.

[SpeedyClaxton]

I watched a replay of last years throwback game and James Lee had a few outstanding run blocks. Just wanted to give him some props since were talking OT's

[Feel Real Good]

I watched a replay of last years throwback game and James Lee had a few outstanding run blocks. Just wanted to give him some props since were talking OT's

He started 9 games and if you figure 35 pass attempts per game that puts him at 315 pass plays, more than enough to make this list if he was good or bad enough, so it's a positive sign using the same criteria he didn't grade as poorly as Penn and Trueblood.

[dbucfan]

The larger issue in the evaluation you guys like so much is that we are on our third or 4 OC and Oline coaching group - and there hasn't been a huge outcry from anyone on the staff or FO as regards lack of talent or performance - bucs aren't drafting or signing FA Olinemen.  Sure is strange.

Ignoring Bucs players, which rankings do you disagree with? Are Jake Long, Joe Thomas, and D'Brickashaw Ferguson not generally considered the three best left tackles in the NFL? Would Brandyn Dombrowski, Levi Brown, and Frank Omiyale not generally be considered among the worst?

[Biggs3535]

I'm not sure what ^^^that^^^ is??

[BucFanOcala1]

Lee is a major upgrade over trueblood..   I know comparing Lee to Trueblood isnt saying much..

I like lee...He's stout and smart.

[dbucfan]

The larger issue - taking the place the joke/teasing opening you quoted earlier.  Now - the bucs over a couple of coaching staffs seem quite reticent to replace their personnel on the Oline - so, do we buy them a PFF subscription - or acknowledge that perhaps the coaching staff doesn't agree with PFF?

[Biggs3535]

The larger issue - taking the place the joke/teasing opening you quoted earlier.  Now - the bucs over a couple of coaching staffs seem quite reticent to replace their personnel on the Oline - so, do we buy them a PFF subscription - or acknowledge that perhaps the coaching staff doesn't agree with PFF?

I think you're exaggerating the "couple of coaching staffs" bit.  One coaching staff brought all of these guys in, so they wouldn't replace them.  The current coaching staff is the one that would replace them.

Now to the point, there were a lot units that needed upgrading.  They've done QB, WR's, TE's, one RB, DT's, DE's, CB's, Safety's, and one LB.  There have only been so many draft picks available, and the one the FO tried to use on an OT was a bust.  So maybe there is an issue in evaluation of OL talent.  But it looks like they are happy with using scrubs or other team's castoffs at the positions since the team does have players like Freeman and Blount who are able to perform in spite of crappy OL performances.

[nubcake]

I'm not really sure how anyone could have watched last season and complain about a site who calls out our offensive line for poor play. It was consistently amongst the worst in the NFL.

[dalbuc]

I'm not really sure how anyone could have watched last season and complain about a site who calls out our offensive line for poor play. It was consistently amongst the worst in the NFL.

There's been a delusion for several years that our OL is a "strength" of this team. I don't understand where that faith came from.

[Feel Real Good]

The larger issue - taking the place the joke/teasing opening you quoted earlier.  Now - the bucs over a couple of coaching staffs seem quite reticent to replace their personnel on the Oline - so, do we buy them a PFF subscription - or acknowledge that perhaps the coaching staff doesn't agree with PFF?

Didn't you personally want to run Mangurian out of town since about the day he was hired? And now you trust his opinion?

[dbucfan]

The larger issue - taking the place the joke/teasing opening you quoted earlier.  Now - the bucs over a couple of coaching staffs seem quite reticent to replace their personnel on the Oline - so, do we buy them a PFF subscription - or acknowledge that perhaps the coaching staff doesn't agree with PFF?

I think you're exaggerating the "couple of coaching staffs" bit.  One coaching staff brought all of these guys in, so they wouldn't replace them.  The current coaching staff is the one that would replace them.

Now to the point, there were a lot units that needed upgrading.  They've done QB, WR's, TE's, one RB, DT's, DE's, CB's, Safety's, and one LB.  There have only been so many draft picks available, and the one the FO tried to use on an OT was a bust.  So maybe there is an issue in evaluation of OL talent.  But it looks like they are happy with using scrubs or other team's castoffs at the positions since the team does have players like Freeman and Blount who are able to perform in spite of crappy OL performances.

Not exaggerating I don't think biggs - you and I have watched the league and the bucs in particular as they assemble what they believe is good talent.  This issue with PFF has been a constant.  The bucs with Gruden/Allen and now Raheem/Dominick do not seem to share PFF's evaluations.  Now maybe all that changes with apparently just about all other positions getting attention.  And perhaps not.  In the interim - this very topic was addressed in a recent podcast - and perhaps - just perhaps - PFF isn't the be-all and end-all for offensive line. 

On the other hand - the bucs have the skill players they need on O - if the Oline is deficient in the eyes of the FO and Coaching staff - well we can expect to see turnover for certain - assuming PFF is correct.