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4bucs

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#15 : June 14, 2011, 11:00:37 PM

Buccaneer's line would have to be historically bad giving the rating from outside sources - but - then the bucs front office hasn't done much of anything to improve the line for three years.  One would have to think perhaps the bucs FO and Coaching staff doesn't see the Oline group as history making awful.  Now one wonders if an outside source is doing a better evaluation than the bucs' staff...
right now i'm not doubting anything Dominik is doing ....hes scalding hot......the fact that they didn't make a move on any Olinemen in the draft says to me they are not that worried about their Oline imho.

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#16 : June 14, 2011, 11:33:31 PM

right now i'm not doubting anything Dominik is doing ....hes scalding hot.....


I may have missed something.   But it doesn't seem Dominik is scalding hot at all when it comes to veteran free agents.    (Although if I'm not mistaken, scouting veteran players for possible free agent acquisitions was his job prior to being promoted to GM).     His 2 big veteran free agent signings were Derrick Ward and Angelo Crowell.    Which good veteran free agent signings have I missed?


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#17 : June 15, 2011, 03:42:21 AM

Its really hard to rank linemen by a formula approach.

It the QB takes 3 steps and the ball comes out like the West Coast offensive, then the line has many less hurries credited to it.

Freeman holds the ball longer, many times, looking for a receiver to come open, so it follows that there will be more hurries, but this is more a reflection on the style of offense than the quality of lineman.

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#18 : June 15, 2011, 04:01:01 AM

Its really hard to rank linemen by a formula approach.

It the QB takes 3 steps and the ball comes out like the West Coast offensive, then the line has many less hurries credited to it.

Freeman holds the ball longer, many times, looking for a receiver to come open, so it follows that there will be more hurries, but this is more a reflection on the style of offense than the quality of lineman.


Agreed.   If you rated all the offensive lines in Buccaneer history, this current one would be in the top 50% for sure.


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#19 : June 15, 2011, 04:18:05 AM

but PFF is an extremely accurate and valid site. I mean they guess at assignments and protection calls. They score all of these players acurately on every single team and they make no mistakes despite guess. We should use these numbers as gospel. I mean why would the type of offense, playcall, protections, etc mean anything. either the guy blocked that guy on tv or he didnt right?

No one should ever use PFF as evidence of anything. just pretty numbers and fancy stats based on guesses.



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#20 : June 15, 2011, 06:17:03 AM

but PFF is an extremely accurate and valid site. I mean they guess at assignments and protection calls. They score all of these players acurately on every single team and they make no mistakes despite guess. We should use these numbers as gospel. I mean why would the type of offense, playcall, protections, etc mean anything. either the guy blocked that guy on tv or he didnt right?

No one should ever use PFF as evidence of anything. just pretty numbers and fancy stats based on guesses.

so are you suggesting there is no way to analyze/grade players?

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#21 : June 15, 2011, 06:44:59 AM

On the offensive line GT - really hard to grade them not knowing the play call, or the blocking call, or the players assignment on the individual play.  On one of the Scott/CC's podcasts this was addressed.  Really hard for an outside source to evaluate - likely even harder to know when one is wrong...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#22 : June 15, 2011, 07:04:19 AM

I agree that its hard to evaluate. Now on a certain play call you can say that a player did the right things, but was it the right play call? That has to factor in as well. Or who the guy was playing against.

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#23 : June 15, 2011, 07:04:44 AM

but PFF is an extremely accurate and valid site. I mean they guess at assignments and protection calls. They score all of these players acurately on every single team and they make no mistakes despite guess. We should use these numbers as gospel. I mean why would the type of offense, playcall, protections, etc mean anything. either the guy blocked that guy on tv or he didnt right?

No one should ever use PFF as evidence of anything. just pretty numbers and fancy stats based on guesses.
Surely there are some plays and some positions that are difficult to grade, but how many times when John Abraham lines up at RDE is he going to be assigned to be blocked by someone other than Donald Penn? Jeff Faine (if he's healthy) isn't going to slide over to take him. Football isn't that big a mystery.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#24 : June 15, 2011, 07:05:47 AM

On the offensive line GT - really hard to grade them not knowing the play call, or the blocking call, or the players assignment on the individual play.  On one of the Scott/CC's podcasts this was addressed.  Really hard for an outside source to evaluate - likely even harder to know when one is wrong...
Amazing how not knowing the playcalls they can figure out Joe Thomas, Jake Long, and D'Brickashaw Ferguson are the best left tackles.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#25 : June 15, 2011, 07:17:14 AM

but PFF is an extremely accurate and valid site. I mean they guess at assignments and protection calls. They score all of these players acurately on every single team and they make no mistakes despite guess. We should use these numbers as gospel. I mean why would the type of offense, playcall, protections, etc mean anything. either the guy blocked that guy on tv or he didnt right?

No one should ever use PFF as evidence of anything. just pretty numbers and fancy stats based on guesses.
Surely there are some plays and some positions that are difficult to grade, but how many times when John Abraham lines up at RDE is he going to be assigned to be blocked by someone other than Donald Penn? Jeff Faine (if he's healthy) isn't going to slide over to take him. Football isn't that big a mystery.

Not so much that but was the blocking scheme the correct way to block for the defense on that play. That factors in.

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#26 : June 15, 2011, 07:18:07 AM

On the offensive line GT - really hard to grade them not knowing the play call, or the blocking call, or the players assignment on the individual play.  On one of the Scott/CC's podcasts this was addressed.  Really hard for an outside source to evaluate - likely even harder to know when one is wrong...
Amazing how not knowing the playcalls they can figure out Joe Thomas, Jake Long, and D'Brickashaw Ferguson are the best left tackles.

I think consistency is the word were looking for here.

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#27 : June 15, 2011, 07:27:14 AM

but PFF is an extremely accurate and valid site. I mean they guess at assignments and protection calls. They score all of these players acurately on every single team and they make no mistakes despite guess. We should use these numbers as gospel. I mean why would the type of offense, playcall, protections, etc mean anything. either the guy blocked that guy on tv or he didnt right?

No one should ever use PFF as evidence of anything. just pretty numbers and fancy stats based on guesses.
Surely there are some plays and some positions that are difficult to grade, but how many times when John Abraham lines up at RDE is he going to be assigned to be blocked by someone other than Donald Penn? Jeff Faine (if he's healthy) isn't going to slide over to take him. Football isn't that big a mystery.

Not so much that but was the blocking scheme the correct way to block for the defense on that play. That factors in.
How about "Don't let him turn the corner" and "Don't fall on your butt when he bulls into you"?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#28 : June 15, 2011, 07:32:32 AM

but PFF is an extremely accurate and valid site. I mean they guess at assignments and protection calls. They score all of these players acurately on every single team and they make no mistakes despite guess. We should use these numbers as gospel. I mean why would the type of offense, playcall, protections, etc mean anything. either the guy blocked that guy on tv or he didnt right?

No one should ever use PFF as evidence of anything. just pretty numbers and fancy stats based on guesses.
Surely there are some plays and some positions that are difficult to grade, but how many times when John Abraham lines up at RDE is he going to be assigned to be blocked by someone other than Donald Penn? Jeff Faine (if he's healthy) isn't going to slide over to take him. Football isn't that big a mystery.

Not so much that but was the blocking scheme the correct way to block for the defense on that play. That factors in.
How about "Don't let him turn the corner" and "Don't fall on your butt when he bulls into you"?

Yea that usually is what works. Im just assuming that when have the wrong blocking scheme that it can sometimes factor in. Not all the time but sometimes. Honestly though it shouldnt be any secret that our weakness on offense is on the Oline. Same could be said about the Steelers but they made it to the super bowl. Just to be clear Im not suggesting our Oline is as good as the Steelers but I am saying that sometimes Oline doesnt need to be great. Just good enough. Especcially when you have a mobile and big QB like Freeman.
: June 15, 2011, 07:35:01 AM BucBalla85

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#29 : June 15, 2011, 08:11:29 AM

On the offensive line GT - really hard to grade them not knowing the play call, or the blocking call, or the players assignment on the individual play.  On one of the Scott/CC's podcasts this was addressed.  Really hard for an outside source to evaluate - likely even harder to know when one is wrong...
Amazing how not knowing the playcalls they can figure out Joe Thomas, Jake Long, and D'Brickashaw Ferguson are the best left tackles.
LOL - yea - with the same caveat towards their statistics. I would offer I might on a good day with lots of advice from you might be able to look at the performance of Joe Thomas, compare him to other players, and think he might well be one of the top 3.  I don't think that is amazing. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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