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JDog

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#30 : June 16, 2011, 09:52:43 AM

2008 team >09 team by far.


Really?   I remember many on here saying Leftwich was an upgrade from Garcia.   How many games did Raheem win with Leftwich?   Oh, zero.    If Gruden took the 2008 team to 9-7, the best Raheem could have done would have been 2-14.

Without Freeman, there would have been no wins in 2009.  Zero.    Morris can't win a game without the guy.


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#31 : June 16, 2011, 10:26:56 AM

Gruden will never coach again. And he was never that good at it in the first place.

blind melon

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#32 : June 16, 2011, 10:28:19 AM

well...

there goes the 'neighborhood'...

lolol

Who knew how good it would feel as a fan when we now know what it\'s like for our team to have a direction, an attitude, and dare I say an offense?.  

Good time to be a Bucs fan.

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#33 : June 16, 2011, 10:29:25 AM

Garcia is better than Leftwich imo. At least Garcia takes care of the football and avoids sacks. Leftwich held onto the ball for way too long. Also I dont think I can agree on the 2-14 because it will never happen. Thats just open to opinions at this point. So who knows what would happen if that scenario happened. As for Freeman, Im glad he got Morris his first win. He was Morris's guy from the start. As for whether he can win a game without him is still up for debate imo. Hopefully it never has to either because Im hoping Freeman can be the durable guy who never misses a start.

JDog

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#34 : June 16, 2011, 10:33:47 AM

Hopefully it never has to either because Im hoping Freeman can be the durable guy who never misses a start.

Believe me, Heemy is praying for that as well.   He'd hate to have to actually coach the team to a win rather than have Freeman carry him.


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#35 : June 16, 2011, 10:38:06 AM

Hopefully it never has to either because Im hoping Freeman can be the durable guy who never misses a start.

Believe me, Heemy is praying for that as well.   He'd hate to have to actually coach the team to a win rather than have Freeman carry him.

lol so much hatred for the guy. He will prove you wrong someday Jdog. Right now we just have to play the waiting game and continue backing him up. Is the lockout over yet?

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#36 : June 16, 2011, 02:11:22 PM

Jon Gruden could not have done it.


Give Gruden the same players they have now, and they make a superbowl run in 2011.   With Heemy, they won't even go 8-8 in 2011.



Jon Gruden is great at scheming and working out the Xs and Os. As an OC he's fine. He has no eye for talent and players can't relate to him. Seven years here and not one single great talent can he point to to say he developed as a player, not one. Raheem leads from in front. Gruden was behind everybody cracking the whip. Raheem is honest with his guys and they respect him for that. They'll go through a brick wall for him,and that's why they will compete consistently year after year. The roller coaster ride is over. We have franchise QB and it didn't take seven years to find one. I appreciate 2002. 2003 to 2008 didn't impress me. Gruden had something to build on and couldn't. As far as I am concerned, Gruden has found his niche and he should stay in the media. The Bucs have found what they needed, a HC.

You would HAVE to give Gruden the players. The only way he recognizes talent is when they have success on another team. Grudy is NOT a teacher. He has never done anything more than recycle rejects. It paid off once, but wouldn't have without Dungy's Defense. Grudy spent seven years looking for a QB. Raheem got his franchise QB with his very first pick in his very first draft, and Freeman loves him. Nobody loves Grudy.  He has built nothing anywhere. He couldn't even figure out how to get two receiving threats on the field at the same time. Our OC didn't find that to be a problem last year. Maybe Grudy has learned something in the broadcast booth. Maybe he has even learned to recognize talent that's under 30. I don't know, but I still wouldn't want him as a HC. He's a lousy leader and too self centered. He repeats his mistakes and never learns from them. It became depressing year after year. Raheem addresses the issues and obviously knows how to plan for the future. Buc fans are excited and can't wait to see what happens next. Dominik and Raheem have loaded this team up with young talent. There are still some holes to be filled, but we all know they will be ASAP, and not with rejects from other teams.

The Bucs will win the division and at least one playoff game this year.

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#37 : June 16, 2011, 02:27:14 PM

Hopefully it never has to either because Im hoping Freeman can be the durable guy who never misses a start.

Believe me, Heemy is praying for that as well.   He'd hate to have to actually coach the team to a win rather than have Freeman carry him.

lol so much hatred for the guy. He will prove you wrong someday Jdog. Right now we just have to play the waiting game and continue backing him up. Is the lockout over yet?
Actually Raheem will probably never prove jdog wrong. Because when the bucs do good he will say it is all because of Free. Just like he is saying now about last season.

You see, Jdog is a troll. And he has made up his mind about Raheem. And being an ignorant troll he cant change it. So if the bucs win the superbowl its all thanks to Freeman. And if we lose the NFC championship its all because of Raheem.


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#38 : June 16, 2011, 06:14:54 PM

Gruden and Allen did a great job of compiling one off teams, teams that had a very small window to do good.

I don't think they did that at all.  The teams they assembled were crap talent teams that overachieved due to extremely good coaching.   Raheem would have gone 0-16 with that 2008 team.   He can't win a game without Freeman carrying him.

So let me get your logic, Raheem isn't a good coach because the only reason his teams won was because of a player he and Dominik extensively researched and chose to be the future of this team? Not the guy that was left, the guy they wanted and traded up for. OK.

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#39 : June 16, 2011, 06:31:05 PM

Java, go ahead and have your fun. sooner or later the mods are going to swat you like a fly. the argument that you don't post with an agenda gets thinner and thinner each time you post. you're digging your own grave, just as LoganBucs did with political topics.

This space for rent....*sigh* I trusted you coach.

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#40 : June 16, 2011, 07:32:26 PM

Nobody's saying he was perfect in 2009,


He's not perfect now either - and never will be.
Don't know of anyone that is perfect.  And there is no denying he is getting better as he grows into the position.  None at all.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

MiltonMack21

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#41 : June 16, 2011, 07:48:50 PM

Nobody's saying he was perfect in 2009,


He's not perfect now either - and never will be.
Don't know of anyone that is perfect.  And there is no denying he is getting better as he grows into the position.  None at all.

That's all you can ask for.


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#42 : June 16, 2011, 09:10:07 PM

Gruden will never coach again. And he was never that good at it in the first place.

Obviously isn't acquainted with Jdog yet... WIllie: meet Jdog. Jdog....get em.

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#43 : June 16, 2011, 09:19:02 PM

Jon Gruden could not have done it.


Give Gruden the same players they have now, and they make a superbowl run in 2011.   With Heemy, they won't even go 8-8 in 2011.



Jon Gruden is great at scheming and working out the Xs and Os. As an OC he's fine. He has no eye for talent and players can't relate to him. Seven years here and not one single great talent can he point to to say he developed as a player, not one. Raheem leads from in front. Gruden was behind everybody cracking the whip. Raheem is honest with his guys and they respect him for that. They'll go through a brick wall for him,and that's why they will compete consistently year after year. The roller coaster ride is over. We have franchise QB and it didn't take seven years to find one. I appreciate 2002. 2003 to 2008 didn't impress me. Gruden had something to build on and couldn't. As far as I am concerned, Gruden has found his niche and he should stay in the media. The Bucs have found what they needed, a HC.

You would HAVE to give Gruden the players. The only way he recognizes talent is when they have success on another team. Grudy is NOT a teacher. He has never done anything more than recycle rejects. It paid off once, but wouldn't have without Dungy's Defense. Grudy spent seven years looking for a QB. Raheem got his franchise QB with his very first pick in his very first draft, and Freeman loves him. Nobody loves Grudy.  He has built nothing anywhere. He couldn't even figure out how to get two receiving threats on the field at the same time. Our OC didn't find that to be a problem last year. Maybe Grudy has learned something in the broadcast booth. Maybe he has even learned to recognize talent that's under 30. I don't know, but I still wouldn't want him as a HC. He's a lousy leader and too self centered. He repeats his mistakes and never learns from them. It became depressing year after year. Raheem addresses the issues and obviously knows how to plan for the future. Buc fans are excited and can't wait to see what happens next. Dominik and Raheem have loaded this team up with young talent. There are still some holes to be filled, but we all know they will be ASAP, and not with rejects from other teams.

The Bucs will win the division and at least one playoff game this year.

He's still incredulous that we traded Gaines....


and lol at winning the division... we can all dream high I suppose. but we're gonna have an elite division for the next couple years... so its gonna be tough. I think it's possible, (not definitely possibly possible, J) and COULD happen, I just wouldn't be calling my local shark just yet on that one. 

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#44 : June 16, 2011, 09:31:07 PM

Gruden and Allen did a great job of compiling one off teams, teams that had a very small window to do good.

GruAllen didn't do a good job at anything!!!!

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?
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