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ISLAND BUCS

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#105 : June 28, 2011, 10:35:19 PM

Not much on stats which is the basis for the differing opinions. But I do draw conclusions from watching the plays a few times in slow motion.

Was truly surprised by how well Hardman did after the first quarter and a half of his initial play.  Really thought the sky would fall, but it never did. .

Nevertheless, from my vantage point, it would seem that Joseph is the better RG, though it doesn't seem to be as wide a difference as I first expected..

On the other hand, I have True's pass protection move etched in my mind, and it isn't effective.

So on pass protection alone, I like Lee better than True.

We make our conclusions based on plays that happened in the past.

But fortunately for us, we have professions, R Morris and P Morris who will make decisions in the now.  Who is best right now in this upcoming game.

Then we will have some indication of whether our thinking is sound, or whether we have to re-think our position based on professional analysis at gametime.


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#106 : June 28, 2011, 11:14:54 PM


bla bla bla bla bla


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#107 : June 28, 2011, 11:54:24 PM

If Joseph leaves, I will not shed a tear.

The BUcs can do without him.  It looks like he sometimes is too anxious to get into the second klevel, rather than taking care of his immediate business...espescially on goal line stands, or short yardage situations.

And for him to insinuate that Trueblood NEEDS to be there with him?  What sort of player does that?  He is a lineman...not a QB....


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#108 : June 29, 2011, 12:37:32 AM

Joseph is extremely weak at the point of attack, and he has a tendency to let knifing, agile interior defensive lineman beat him despite having a significant wingspan.  In other words, Mahan was rag dolled often, but he wasn't beat by agile interior DL knifing through, it was mainly the power guys.   I wonder if it is more of a mental break down than physical given his physical tools exceeds Mahan's, but his play doesn't show it on the field.  Joseph's strengths are pulling, and open space blocking, but the problem is that is what Mahan excelled at as well with his time with the Bucs, which is not enough in my opinion for a RG to keep the starting gig long term.  My preference would be to see the Bucs have a power guy at RG, but even if the staff prefers a more athletic RG that can pass protect instead of being a run blocking mauler at POA, well Joseph doesn't fit either category.  Cosey Coleman at least showed flashes of his athletic potential, but I can say that Joseph's shine was only in his rookie year, but it was outdone by Sears the following year.   RG is the easiest position on the OL to replace, so Joseph in my mind is the least important Bucs free agent to re-sign.

Trueblood is actually a lot better at the point of attack, and I wonder how much better he would be with a mauling RG next to him.  HIs pass protection is a weak point, and like Joseph, he is good blocker in space, but that may not be enough to entertain the thought of re-signing him too.  The difference is that a RT is more important than a RG, so it is higher on the totem pole, especially if the Bucs fail to land an upgrade at RT.  I can see a scenario where Trueblood, not Joseph, is re-signed.  Most assume Joseph has a good chance of re-signing given what has been said the last few months, but that wouldn't shock me if it happened this was instead.



: June 29, 2011, 12:43:18 AM alldaway

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#109 : June 29, 2011, 09:20:01 AM

Interesting stat I just found. In 2006 the games Davin did not play in (Weeks 1-4) the Buccaneers averaged 43.3 yards rushing a game. The games he played in (5-17) the team averaged 107 rushing yards a game. WOW he must be a stud as he can be the only reason that the rushing stats improved so much (at least that is how some people apparently think)
So Davin is a better run blocker than Sean Mahan? Woo hoo let's throw him a parade!

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#110 : June 29, 2011, 09:21:06 AM

That would be them S&B - seems some folks think they are missing the boat across the entire line... with special focus on Davin and Trueblood, not ignoring Faine, or Penn, insofar as dislike.  Would have thought if those guys all stunk at least a draft pick might have been aimed at the Oline - who knows, maybe FA will be used to get right on the Oline.
I liked it better when you used to post your personal opinions, right or wrong, and not circular arguments about what you think the coaches might be thinking.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Biggs3535

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#111 : June 29, 2011, 09:26:14 AM

Interesting stat I just found. In 2006 the games Davin did not play in (Weeks 1-4) the Buccaneers averaged 43.3 yards rushing a game. The games he played in (5-17) the team averaged 107 rushing yards a game. WOW he must be a stud as he can be the only reason that the rushing stats improved so much (at least that is how some people apparently think)
So Davin is a better run blocker than Sean Mahan? Woo hoo let's throw him a parade!

That can't be said for certain.  There were many other factors involved in those games.  For instance, Mahan had to work with different referees, different surfaces, different weather conditions, faced different DC's, the football might not have had quite as much air it, etc..  Mahan is excused.


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#112 : June 29, 2011, 09:28:06 AM

Interesting stat I just found. In 2006 the games Davin did not play in (Weeks 1-4) the Buccaneers averaged 43.3 yards rushing a game. The games he played in (5-17) the team averaged 107 rushing yards a game. WOW he must be a stud as he can be the only reason that the rushing stats improved so much (at least that is how some people apparently think)
So Davin is a better run blocker than Sean Mahan? Woo hoo let's throw him a parade!

That can't be said for certain.  There were many other factors involved in those games.  For instance, Mahan had to work with different referees, different surfaces, different weather conditions, faced different DC's, the football might not have had quite as much air it, etc..  Mahan is excused.
Don't forget Chris Simms. If Mahan got to play with Bruce Gradkowski things would have been a lot different.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#113 : June 29, 2011, 03:05:14 PM

imo we offer Davin and his buddy TB  low end contracts and if they walk ...so what....we sign a a FA guy like Litui and run with Lee and Dotson at RT....I had it a long time ago with TB ......hes dumb as a post and can't pass block to save his life .....if that bum is signed he better be 3rd string....he sucks .....and Davin  for all his talk is good one day and bad the next and he can't pass block either...and sorry Tatmanfish b ut I agree with 3535 when they were out we did better and TB couldn't get his job back.....like to see us sign 2 FA olinemen .....hell imo  get rid of Faine too......the young guys are comi ng along ...sign 2 B type olineman ......and roll with the young guys......why waste money on those 3......not sorry if we lose Faine,Joseph and Trueblood....these guys imo are huge underachievers......they all talk a good game.....to me they are below average most of the time.
                 I believe in continuity and cohesion but that only true when the players are talented and consistent.......the 3 of them are here ...what 3 years or more ....they don't show enough ....I know you try to keep the same guys to get a flow going but not when they blow....and those 3 blow.
: June 29, 2011, 03:10:38 PM 4bucs

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#114 : June 29, 2011, 03:50:30 PM

TB and Faine I dont have any hope for. TB is a depth guy to me and I think Faine will be gone after this year when his salary hits the $6mil mark. Joseph is the only that has any value IMO, but isnt worth a big contract. Ideally Id like to see him signed to a very reasonable contract and sign a better G in FA. It would allow Larsen and Zuttah to compete for Faines spot starting this year. A Lutui, Evans, etc. would work great with a Joseph type player IMO and the Bucs could upgrade from Faine this year or next. The whole line would be much improved with only the RT spot to adress if no one steps up. just think that Josephs just enough of an above average starter that he would be a good piece moving forward until better comes along.

I dont see the point in getting rid of a player at any position unless there is a better guy to take over(or they want too much). IMO, those guys arent on the roster or havent show that they are better if they are.
: June 29, 2011, 03:52:33 PM tatmanfish



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