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BucNY

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#15 : July 18, 2011, 10:07:28 AM

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion most fans of the buccaneers don't feel any free agent player is good enough for this team, and if the player is close to good enough they are far too expensive to the point where the bucs won't or shouldn't even speak to the player's agent.

I'm one of the biggest nay sayers about free agency moves. I just don't feel great teams are built through FA, maybe a stud here or there, but that's not the rule. A guy like Mankins or Asomugha are great players and demand such a high salary that it will likely compromise resigning young stars in the future. On top of that if we have young CB (Lewis and 7th rounder this year, his name slips me at this point) why spend a ton of money on a guy when you would only be losing a step or two with your younger guy.

It's just about value. We had a terrible cap problem in the past and it ruined our team. Let's not do that again, it would be a shame to have to choose between keeping Mike Williams and Benn because we over spend on Aso this year, a different guy next year and a different guy the 3rd year. Those moves do matter and we do have a ton of cap room but once we resign the guys we are keeping we aren't going to have anywhere near that much room.

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#16 : July 18, 2011, 10:14:27 AM

Im on board. Mankins would be my top FA choice if he isnt franchised.Slide Larsen to center, and our line is all set.





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#17 : July 18, 2011, 10:16:35 AM

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion most fans of the buccaneers don't feel any free agent player is good enough for this team, and if the player is close to good enough they are far too expensive to the point where the bucs won't or shouldn't even speak to the player's agent.

I'm one of the biggest nay sayers about free agency moves. I just don't feel great teams are built through FA, maybe a stud here or there, but that's not the rule. A guy like Mankins or Asomugha are great players and demand such a high salary that it will likely compromise resigning young stars in the future. On top of that if we have young CB (Lewis and 7th rounder this year, his name slips me at this point) why spend a ton of money on a guy when you would only be losing a step or two with your younger guy.

It's just about value. We had a terrible cap problem in the past and it ruined our team. Let's not do that again, it would be a shame to have to choose between keeping Mike Williams and Benn because we over spend on Aso this year, a different guy next year and a different guy the 3rd year. Those moves do matter and we do have a ton of cap room but once we resign the guys we are keeping we aren't going to have anywhere near that much room.

I agree with that. Its these decisions that can make a team or ruin a team. Although sometimes these decisions can make or break a super bowl appearance. Theres a sweet spot that gets consistency and super bowl appearances. I think were on the way to do all of that because of Freeman and if the Dline picks pan out then we have ourselves a consistent team on the rise here. Agree though that an Aso signing could cripple the team in a few years if its a spread out contract that pays the man 20 a year or something like that. That would be too crazy and Ill happily let some other team do that.

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#18 : July 18, 2011, 10:30:18 AM

Not a cap-ologist, so I ask to the naysayer's about spending a lot of money on free agents. What do you say we do? Do we over pay for say, Davin...just because he's been a Buc already? I ask because everything I've heard says we have to spend X amount of dollars to hit the floor. I keep reading posters talk about big free agency spending not being "Dom's" way of doing things, but as of this offseason, will he have a choice?

And please understand, I don't want to see this team in cap hell again. But I don't view that as being "don't sign any big name guys" either. I think there's a distinct way of going about doing it, but I'm interested to hear how we're gonna reach the floor by being mediocre players in free agency. Our positions of need are pretty glaring at CB(Talib?), OG, ROT(IMO), MLB (with no big uprgrades available). Soo...where do we spend to reach the floor?

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#19 : July 18, 2011, 10:31:31 AM

It's just about value. We had a terrible cap problem in the past and it ruined our team. Let's not do that again, it would be a shame to have to choose between keeping Mike Williams and Benn because we over spend on Aso this year, a different guy next year and a different guy the 3rd year. Those moves do matter and we do have a ton of cap room but once we resign the guys we are keeping we aren't going to have anywhere near that much room.
IMO the early 2000s Bucs got into cap trouble not by paying too much money to the star level players but by paying too much money to the non-star level players. IMO you don'tget into trouble paying big money to Mankins and Asomugha type players because they earn it; you get into trouble by paying 75% of Mankins and Asomugha money to mediocre players like Davin Joseph and Barrett Ruud because you can find minimum salary players that can do the same things they can do.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#20 : July 18, 2011, 10:55:19 AM

Maybe I'm just playing devils advocate here, because I do think mankins and asomugha are great players, but...

How many of you guys watch patriot and raider games religiously?  When watching the pats, are you guys really watching mankins instead of brady moss and welker?  Does asomugha even get on tv when he's nowhere near a play all season?  Could media have a heavy hand in our opinion of these players? 

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#21 : July 18, 2011, 11:33:49 AM

Not a cap-ologist, so I ask to the naysayer's about spending a lot of money on free agents. What do you say we do? Do we over pay for say, Davin...just because he's been a Buc already? I ask because everything I've heard says we have to spend X amount of dollars to hit the floor. I keep reading posters talk about big free agency spending not being "Dom's" way of doing things, but as of this offseason, will he have a choice?

And please understand, I don't want to see this team in cap hell again. But I don't view that as being "don't sign any big name guys" either. I think there's a distinct way of going about doing it, but I'm interested to hear how we're gonna reach the floor by being mediocre players in free agency. Our positions of need are pretty glaring at CB(Talib?), OG, ROT(IMO), MLB (with no big uprgrades available). Soo...where do we spend to reach the floor?

Barring restrictions on contract structure you can give Freeman a long extension with something like a $25M base salary in 2011 in place of a signing bonus. Not many want to hear that though because they just want to add players without evaluating long term consequences.

And this is going to be a buyer's market, but that doesn't include Asomugha and Mankins.  There's going to be good values for second and third tier players who aren't sexy names but are still good players. You can spend Asomugha money on 4 or 5 players combined.

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#22 : July 18, 2011, 11:59:08 AM

Barring restrictions on contract structure you can give Freeman a long extension with something like a $25M base salary in 2011 in place of a signing bonus. Not many want to hear that though because they just want to add players without evaluating long term consequences.

And this is going to be a buyer's market, but that doesn't include Asomugha and Mankins.  There's going to be good values for second and third tier players who aren't sexy names but are still good players. You can spend Asomugha money on 4 or 5 players combined.

Agree.  A heavy front loaded contract for freeman (I would like to see them go higher then 25 in the first year) could easily be more important to the long term success of the Bucs then any free agent signing.  I hope they do this regardless of who they target.  The other thing is everyone is talking about the money the Bucs have to spend to get to the floor.  I'm very hopeful that the franchise will spend up close to the cap.  I agree that there could well be some steal values because of the nature of this free agency (just not likely at the top end of the market).  Would love to see the front office seperate themselves even more by making a few quality pro personel moves.  I've mentioned it before, but we're realistically still a season or two from being in our "prime" (and even then it will be early prime) for a Super Bowl run.  I just don't see why many are so keen on signing 29 year old players to huge multi-year contracts this offseason.  Yeah, these guys could still be at the top of their game when we hit our stride, but the odds are more likey that they will be starting into their decline as the rest of the team is starting to peak.  Are we Aso and/or Mankins away from being Super Bowl contenders?  Are we willing to risk a possible 5-6 season dynasty for a shorter window sooner?  Guess those are subjective questions/answers, but if I was drafting as well as the Bucs appear to be the last couple seasons, I'd be really careful of what I do with large sums of money in free agency. 

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#23 : July 18, 2011, 12:03:44 PM




All those who defend re-signing Trueblood because of his "nasty attitude" should watch this.  It's possible to bring it on the field, play at a high level, and not be a penalty machine.


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#24 : July 18, 2011, 12:16:22 PM

Barring restrictions on contract structure you can give Freeman a long extension with something like a $25M base salary in 2011 in place of a signing bonus. Not many want to hear that though because they just want to add players without evaluating long term consequences.
Then don't have have a $25 million hole to fill in your 2012 cap?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#25 : July 18, 2011, 12:40:14 PM

Barring restrictions on contract structure you can give Freeman a long extension with something like a $25M base salary in 2011 in place of a signing bonus. Not many want to hear that though because they just want to add players without evaluating long term consequences.
Then don't have have a $25 million hole to fill in your 2012 cap?

I would put 25-35 on Freeman's first year and another 20-25 on his second for this reason.  Then for the last 5 years of his contract he's around 6-8 mil and you've got that extra money for the young players who will be hitting their 2nd contracts and need significant raises.  Or for bringing in that last piece or two when we're serious Super Bowl contenders. 

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#26 : July 18, 2011, 12:49:56 PM

Barring restrictions on contract structure you can give Freeman a long extension with something like a $25M base salary in 2011 in place of a signing bonus. Not many want to hear that though because they just want to add players without evaluating long term consequences.
Then don't have have a $25 million hole to fill in your 2012 cap?

I would put 25-35 on Freeman's first year and another 20-25 on his second for this reason.  Then for the last 5 years of his contract he's around 6-8 mil and you've got that extra money for the young players who will be hitting their 2nd contracts and need significant raises.  Or for bringing in that last piece or two when we're serious Super Bowl contenders.

What happens if Free decides to hold out in year 4 because he's underpaid


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#27 : July 18, 2011, 12:53:49 PM

What happens if Free decides to hold out in year 4 because he's underpaid

We're not talking about a 4th grade cafeteria lunch trade.

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#28 : July 18, 2011, 01:05:00 PM

I think teams generally find it most beneficial to pay players a nearly even amount every year.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#29 : July 18, 2011, 02:12:27 PM

I think teams generally find it most beneficial to pay players a nearly even amount every year.

Most teams aren't handed 66+ mil of free cap space (what ever it is) in one offseason with a young franchise qb who you can reasonaby expect to be productive for the next 7+ years.  I would not make a deal like this with very many players.  I feel more confident about Josh continuing to work hard and lead this team after a big pay day. 
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