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JDouble

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#15 : July 27, 2011, 11:29:47 AM

So you are assuming our own players are only worth a penny while other team's players are worth a dollar. Perhaps you are wrong? It's Dom's job to decide these things. Either trust him or don't, but so far he has proven to be pretty good at his job.

I understand your point, but I was more speaking generally. I think that not being active in free agency in order to re-sign your own is a miscalculation when that thinking is applied to almost every situation. Extremes rarely make good guidelines.

The bottom line is that Dom's approach is to have faith in his scouting and drafting. On the outside it appears we could use some upgrades on the O-line as well as a LB, RB, or CB....but on the inside if Dom feels he has better talent in the young guys they have on the roster, he isn't going to go overpay some veteran FA. If he's wrong it will be obvious by seasons end and he will deserve all the criticism he gets, but this is his team to manage and it is his decision to go with the young unproven talent he has. If we finish the year with a top 5 pass defense....passing on Nnamdi won't look so stupid. If guys like Larsen and Lee step up and we have a top O-line this year, Dom will look like a genius. Trying to decide right now whether his approach is right or wrong is pointless.

I will say that the fact we went after Doug Free shows he is not content with our offensive tackles. He might still be interested in Gaither, Claybo, Colon, or Harris if he sees any of them as an upgrade over Lee.
: July 27, 2011, 11:32:44 AM JDouble


BucNY

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#16 : July 27, 2011, 11:34:48 AM

You guys are missing the point. Sure Bush and Aso would help this team but especially in the case of Aso he will want a 5 yr deal or more and where does that leave us in 4-5 years when he is old and not good anymore? Paying him a ton of money while not being able to resign AB or Blount. You get the point.

FA is largely a losing game, unless you get YOUNG FA like Bush. We need young talent to add to this team for years. Not pay a bunch of money for a team that will peak in the next year. Its about long term success. FA is for the short term. How has everyone felt since we won the superbowl and steadily underachieved since that point. We signed FA and our team got old. That's what happens because many FA are in the late 20's or early 30's

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#17 : July 27, 2011, 11:35:42 AM

So you are assuming our own players are only worth a penny while other team's players are worth a dollar. Perhaps you are wrong? It's Dom's job to decide these things. Either trust him or don't, but so far he has proven to be pretty good at his job.

I understand your point, but I was more speaking generally. I think that not being active in free agency in order to re-sign your own is a miscalculation when that thinking is applied to almost every situation. Extremes rarely make good guidelines.

The bottom line is that Dom's approach is to have faith in his scouting and drafting. On the outside it appears we could use some upgrades on the O-line as well as a LB, RB, or CB....but on the inside if Dom feels he has better talent in the young guys they have on the roster, he isn't going to go overpay some veteran FA. If he's wrong it will be obvious by seasons end and he will deserve all the criticism he gets, but this is his team to manage and it is his decision to go with the young unproven talent he has. If we finish the year with a top 5 pass defense....passing on Nnamdi won't look so stupid. If guys like Larsen and Lee step up and we have a top O-line this year, Dom will look like a genius. Trying to decide right now whether his approach is right or wrong is pointless.

I will say that the fact we went after Doug Free shows he is not content with our offensive tackles. He might still be interested in Gaither, Claybo, Colon, or Harris if he sees any of them as an upgrade over Lee.

Finally someone making sense.

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#18 : July 27, 2011, 11:37:30 AM

I don't think the Bucs are that concerned with the salary floor. It isn't like the team faces some sort of massive penelty that sets the franchise back for not being at the floor.
[/quote

I thought teams had to get to the floor by years end or pay out the difference to the players already on the roster?  I thought that was the penalty.  I guess it's not "massive", but they have to get there one way or the other. 

acacius

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#19 : July 27, 2011, 11:39:03 AM

You guys are missing the point. Sure Bush and Aso would help this team but especially in the case of Aso he will want a 5 yr deal or more and where does that leave us in 4-5 years when he is old and not good anymore?

I consider it far less than a given that Aso will not be good in 4-5 years.

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#20 : July 27, 2011, 11:40:36 AM

So you are assuming our own players are only worth a penny while other team's players are worth a dollar. Perhaps you are wrong? It's Dom's job to decide these things. Either trust him or don't, but so far he has proven to be pretty good at his job.

I understand your point, but I was more speaking generally. I think that not being active in free agency in order to re-sign your own is a miscalculation when that thinking is applied to almost every situation. Extremes rarely make good guidelines.

The bottom line is that Dom's approach is to have faith in his scouting and drafting. On the outside it appears we could use some upgrades on the O-line as well as a LB, RB, or CB....but on the inside if Dom feels he has better talent in the young guys they have on the roster, he isn't going to go overpay some veteran FA. If he's wrong it will be obvious by seasons end and he will deserve all the criticism he gets, but this is his team to manage and it is his decision to go with the young unproven talent he has. If we finish the year with a top 5 pass defense....passing on Nnamdi won't look so stupid. If guys like Larsen and Lee step up and we have a top O-line this year, Dom will look like a genius. Trying to decide right now whether his approach is right or wrong is pointless.

I will say that the fact we went after Doug Free shows he is not content with our offensive tackles. He might still be interested in Gaither, Claybo, Colon, or Harris if he sees any of them as an upgrade over Lee.

I understand your point, but there are a lot of "ifs" in there.

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#21 : July 27, 2011, 11:42:30 AM

I thought teams had to get to the floor by years end or pay out the difference to the players already on the roster?  I thought that was the penalty.  I guess it's not "massive", but they have to get there one way or the other.

If that is true, then my  OP still holds true. I see what some others think, don't overpay for a player just to reach to floor. Well, I agree with that. And that includes some of our own players. I say improve the team with quality FA in areas of need or lack of depth. Don't just make a blanket "we are re-signing our own" policy. You might pay a little extra for a player that really helps the team, instead of a lot extra for a player that doesn't help the team as much.

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#22 : July 27, 2011, 11:42:50 AM

Let us also bear in min "the plan" is mostly a cover. We've now seen two years running the bucs going after high prfile/high dollar FA's so there's no "only our draftees" type plan out there. that's become a bit of a rationalization by Dom and some fans for activity bu it clearly isn't a actual mode of though.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#23 : July 27, 2011, 11:45:49 AM

Let us also bear in min "the plan" is mostly a cover. We've now seen two years running the bucs going after high prfile/high dollar FA's so there's no "only our draftees" type plan out there. that's become a bit of a rationalization by Dom and some fans for activity bu it clearly isn't a actual mode of though.

Agreed, but what we have seen repeatedly is, "We're offering this, up to a point". As another poster pointed out, a FA is most likely going to the highest bidder. If you never intend on being the highest bidder, you aren't going to sign many FAs.

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#24 : July 27, 2011, 11:48:03 AM

You guys are missing the point. Sure Bush and Aso would help this team but especially in the case of Aso he will want a 5 yr deal or more and where does that leave us in 4-5 years when he is old and not good anymore?

I consider it far less than a given that Aso will not be good in 4-5 years.

Aso's best years are behind him. You wind up paying him a record deal for a good player. That is how you get into salary cap trouble. Expensive players who are not what they once were.

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JDouble

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#25 : July 27, 2011, 11:49:06 AM

Realistically, I'd say....

CB - Richard Marshall or Josh Wilson
OL - Jared Gaither, Willie Colon, Ryan Harris,or Justin Blalock (maybe two of them if we don't resign Trueblood)
RB - Ahmad Bradshaw or Jason Snelling (only if we don't resign Caddie. Probably just resign Caddie  :( )
TE - Could possibly sign Todd Heap and let Purvis, Overbay, and Hardy battle for a PS spot instead of the 3rd TE spot...but probably not.

I think we'll resign...

Quincy Black
Davin Joseph
Michael Spurlock
Adam Hayward
Frank Okam
Tim Crowder
Rudy Carpenter
Doug Worthington
Michael Bennett
Conner Barth
James Lee

Might also resign Caddie and Trueblood if they come cheap.

The following will not be resigned....

Barrett Ruud
Stylez White
Maurice Stovall
John Gilmore
Niko Koutouvides
Corey Lynch
Elbert Mack
Demar Dotson
Kareem Huggins

That's how I see it happening. probably start the season around $20M under the cap, but we'll make up the salary space at the end of the season by restructuring guys that deserve it.
: July 27, 2011, 11:51:48 AM JDouble


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#26 : July 27, 2011, 12:03:23 PM

Here is how the original "plan" was created ... so it sounds like we are right on track with that blueprint...


JDouble

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#27 : July 27, 2011, 12:08:35 PM

Well the way I see it, and I believe Mark Dominik sees it, is that this scenario gets rid of our 10 weakest players and upgrades to younger guys with more potential. So while only a few are starters, we are getting better as a team and we are sticking to the idea of building thru the draft with just 2nd tier FA signings and occasional trades.


acacius

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#28 : July 27, 2011, 12:12:49 PM

You guys are missing the point. Sure Bush and Aso would help this team but especially in the case of Aso he will want a 5 yr deal or more and where does that leave us in 4-5 years when he is old and not good anymore?

I consider it far less than a given that Aso will not be good in 4-5 years.

Aso's best years are behind him. You wind up paying him a record deal for a good player. That is how you get into salary cap trouble. Expensive players who are not what they once were.

Aso will continue to play at a top level for another five years.

Yay!  Making unsubstantiated statements as if they were fact is fun!  Seriously, do you have *anything* to back up that statement that Aso's best years are behind him?

jerseybucsfan

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#29 : July 27, 2011, 12:47:09 PM

Dom's working on keeping Davin. I'm OK with that for the right price.
He's working on keeping Black too and seems like he will. I like that even more.
Was Paul Pozlusny worth $7M per season? IMHO yes. But he's injury prone so I can see the concerns.
Paying Feeman (proven), MW (almost proven), Benn (not quite as much but hopeful), McCoy (somewhere between Benn and MW's level last year), Bowers (unknown), Clayborn (unknown), Grimm (pretty good), Biggers (pretty good), Foster (unknown) would be a challenge if we backload everything ala the old McKay regime about a decade ago. But we have to be just as discerning with our own as with others.
Anything less than a playoff berth and 2011 is a bust given our talent level and what Dom has the resources to do this week. We already sacrificed for a ''plan'' last year when we were one win short of the playoffs. Do it again this year and Dom's plan, while having improved us immeasurably, will call for a lot of payback later to the fans. And most GMs don't survive long enough to pay those type of debts in full.

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