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AKA T.Calvin

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#15 : July 29, 2011, 09:28:14 AM

First...learn how contracts work...second...this guy is one of the best, if not the best, punters in the league.  Here's a quote from the Falcons forum, after news that we signed Koenen, to put things in perspective on this guy....

Quote
In his career, he's put 150 punts inside the 20 and had only 32 TBs. In order fo your to undersand how amazing that ratio is, you will have to look at the ratio for other punters. It's like 3 to 1 for most punters, and I can't find one with a career ratio as good as Koenen's.

The Falcons have given up by FAR the fewest punt return yards in the NFL over the last 3 years, including setting the NFL record for fewest return yards in 2008.

Our ST punt game was a weak point on this team ALL season long and if you know anything about football you'd know how important field position is...

Cry me a **CENSORED**ing river.

Yup, he is one of the best in the league:

From Rotoworld.com

New Bucs P Michael Koenen's six-year deal is worth $19.5 million, including $6.5 million guaranteed.
We don't normally do separate posts for contracts, but this is like spending a ninth-round fantasy pick on your kicker. It just doesn't make a lot of sense, especially when Koenen finished 28th in the league in net punting average last season.
Net punting average is just DISTANCE so ..that argument doesn't have a leg to stand on

lemmer40

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#16 : July 29, 2011, 09:28:47 AM

Unless you now exactly how the contract is structured and how much money is actually tied to certain accomplishments these numbers mean nothing. The only thing that means anything is the guaranteed portion of these deals. Which in effect thus far have been reported as follows.

Joseph 19 million 7-years = 2.71 per year plus base salaries
Koenen 6.5 million 6-years = 1.08 million per year plus base salaries
Black 11.5  5 years = 2.3 million per year plus base salaries

Thus in guaranteed monies being paid out for the first five years of these three deals is roughly 6.09 million year which is peanuts. Then when you add in base salaries I'm hedging my money on Dominik and the structuring of these deals. I think so many who don't understand the inner workings of NFL contracts get over excited about total monies that are announced.

Another rational and logical thinking person...this board does have a chance...

Ok, your right.  I will ignore all those in the NFL circle on twitter and radio ripping the Bucs over this move and questioning what the Bucs are doing and listen to this guy because he is rational and a logical thinking person. 

Feel Real Good

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#17 : July 29, 2011, 09:30:39 AM

Unless you now exactly how the contract is structured and how much money is actually tied to certain accomplishments these numbers mean nothing. The only thing that means anything is the guaranteed portion of these deals. Which in effect thus far have been reported as follows.

Joseph 19 million 7-years = 2.71 per year plus base salaries
Koenen 6.5 million 6-years = 1.08 million per year plus base salaries
Black 11.5  5 years = 2.3 million per year plus base salaries

Thus in guaranteed monies being paid out for the first five years of these three deals is roughly 6.09 million year which is peanuts. Then when you add in base salaries I'm hedging my money on Dominik and the structuring of these deals. I think so many who don't understand the inner workings of NFL contracts get over excited about total monies that are announced.

Another rational and logical thinking person...this board does have a chance...
Every contract works like this. The Bucs didn't invent something new. Jahri Evans got a $12 million signing bonus, averaged over 7 years, that's $1.71 million per year.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Bucs N Beers

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#18 : July 29, 2011, 09:31:07 AM

While it sucks that our *splash* signing is a punter, there shouldn't be an argument that we needed a punter. Field position is a LARGE part of football. Taking steps to improve that, especially with a young defense is a good thing.

Vets aren't going to come cheap in this league anymore


Green Right Slot, Albacore 3 Y Quesadilla

BucBalla85

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#19 : July 29, 2011, 09:32:10 AM

OH NOOOO... We suck again!!!!

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#20 : July 29, 2011, 09:32:31 AM

First...learn how contracts work...second...this guy is one of the best, if not the best, punters in the league.  Here's a quote from the Falcons forum, after news that we signed Koenen, to put things in perspective on this guy....

Quote
In his career, he's put 150 punts inside the 20 and had only 32 TBs. In order fo your to undersand how amazing that ratio is, you will have to look at the ratio for other punters. It's like 3 to 1 for most punters, and I can't find one with a career ratio as good as Koenen's.

The Falcons have given up by FAR the fewest punt return yards in the NFL over the last 3 years, including setting the NFL record for fewest return yards in 2008.

Our ST punt game was a weak point on this team ALL season long and if you know anything about football you'd know how important field position is...

Cry me a **CENSORED**ing river.

I don't have time to go though any serious analysis right now, however:  2010 #'s

Weatherford (Jets)  42 punts inside the 20, 4 tb
Koch (Ravens) 39 punts inside the 20, 4 tb
Jones (Rams) 32 punts inside the 20, 4 tb
Kluwe (Vikings) 32 punts inside the 20, 5tb
Fields (Dolphins) 31 punts inside the 20, 4tb
Hodges (Browns) 29 punts inside the 20, 5tb
Koenen (Falcons) 29 punts inside the 20, 5tb
Rocca (Eagles) 28 punts inside the 20, 2tb
Lechler (Raiders) 27 punts inside the 20, 4tb
Ryan (Seahawks) 27 punts inside the 20, 1tb

So our guy is solid top 3rd of the league in inside the 20 punts to tb ratio.  There are 8 guys in the league who averaged 45.5 per punt or better.  Almost 5 yards per punt more then Koenen.   His net average (for the hidden yards guys) was 35.6, good for 27th among regular punters in the NFL. 

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#21 : July 29, 2011, 09:33:12 AM

First...learn how contracts work...second...this guy is one of the best, if not the best, punters in the league.  Here's a quote from the Falcons forum, after news that we signed Koenen, to put things in perspective on this guy....

Quote
In his career, he's put 150 punts inside the 20 and had only 32 TBs. In order fo your to undersand how amazing that ratio is, you will have to look at the ratio for other punters. It's like 3 to 1 for most punters, and I can't find one with a career ratio as good as Koenen's.

The Falcons have given up by FAR the fewest punt return yards in the NFL over the last 3 years, including setting the NFL record for fewest return yards in 2008.

Our ST punt game was a weak point on this team ALL season long and if you know anything about football you'd know how important field position is...

Cry me a **CENSORED**ing river.

Yup, he is one of the best in the league:

From Rotoworld.com

New Bucs P Michael Koenen's six-year deal is worth $19.5 million, including $6.5 million guaranteed.
We don't normally do separate posts for contracts, but this is like spending a ninth-round fantasy pick on your kicker. It just doesn't make a lot of sense, especially when Koenen finished 28th in the league in net punting average last season.

Rotoworld comments can sometimes be skewed a bit too much towards a fantasy football projection. The fact of the matter, any Atlanta fan will tell you this, is that Koenen was asked to kick high and limit returns. Net punting and gross punting are both horrible statistics for measuring a punter's worth. There are plenty of times when a punter is asked to kick the ball short...especially when trying to nail it inside the 20, which Koenen did with great regularity last season (29 punts inside the 20 to only 5 TBs). Some other more telling statistics is that only one punt return has ever gone for a TD against his punts and in 2008, opposing return men only gained 49 yards against him for the ENTIRE season.

Not worried about this guy whatsoever. He's one of the top 5 punters in the league, despite what Rotoworld said.

AKA T.Calvin

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#22 : July 29, 2011, 09:33:47 AM

I'm not even going to comment on this.

My friend is listing to NFL Sirius radio right now and said they are busting on the Bucs pretty badly right now over this signing.  The Bucs are slowly becoming a laughing stock.  yeah!
so.

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#23 : July 29, 2011, 09:35:42 AM

Unless you now exactly how the contract is structured and how much money is actually tied to certain accomplishments these numbers mean nothing. The only thing that means anything is the guaranteed portion of these deals. Which in effect thus far have been reported as follows.

Joseph 19 million 7-years = 2.71 per year plus base salaries
Koenen 6.5 million 6-years = 1.08 million per year plus base salaries
Black 11.5  5 years = 2.3 million per year plus base salaries

Thus in guaranteed monies being paid out for the first five years of these three deals is roughly 6.09 million year which is peanuts. Then when you add in base salaries I'm hedging my money on Dominik and the structuring of these deals. I think so many who don't understand the inner workings of NFL contracts get over excited about total monies that are announced.

Another rational and logical thinking person...this board does have a chance...

Ok, your right.  I will ignore all those in the NFL circle on twitter and radio ripping the Bucs over this move and questioning what the Bucs are doing and listen to this guy because he is rational and a logical thinking person.

You're right...everyone on twitter and the radio know best.  Why even hire any GMs at all?  **CENSORED**...the CHEAP ASS GLAZERZ!!!11!!1 could just sign up for twitter and tune into the radio every morning. 

You're right...it's much more of a reasonable and logical approach to judge a team's transactions.

UMiamiBucFan

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#24 : July 29, 2011, 09:37:16 AM

First...learn how contracts work...second...this guy is one of the best, if not the best, punters in the league.  Here's a quote from the Falcons forum, after news that we signed Koenen, to put things in perspective on this guy....

Quote
In his career, he's put 150 punts inside the 20 and had only 32 TBs. In order fo your to undersand how amazing that ratio is, you will have to look at the ratio for other punters. It's like 3 to 1 for most punters, and I can't find one with a career ratio as good as Koenen's.

The Falcons have given up by FAR the fewest punt return yards in the NFL over the last 3 years, including setting the NFL record for fewest return yards in 2008.

Our ST punt game was a weak point on this team ALL season long and if you know anything about football you'd know how important field position is...

Cry me a **CENSORED**ing river.

I don't have time to go though any serious analysis right now, however:  2010 #'s

Weatherford (Jets)  42 punts inside the 20, 4 tb
Koch (Ravens) 39 punts inside the 20, 4 tb
Jones (Rams) 32 punts inside the 20, 4 tb
Kluwe (Vikings) 32 punts inside the 20, 5tb
Fields (Dolphins) 31 punts inside the 20, 4tb
Hodges (Browns) 29 punts inside the 20, 5tb
Koenen (Falcons) 29 punts inside the 20, 5tb
Rocca (Eagles) 28 punts inside the 20, 2tb
Lechler (Raiders) 27 punts inside the 20, 4tb
Ryan (Seahawks) 27 punts inside the 20, 1tb

So our guy is solid top 3rd of the league in inside the 20 punts to tb ratio.  There are 8 guys in the league who averaged 45.5 per punt or better.  Almost 5 yards per punt more then Koenen.   His net average (for the hidden yards guys) was 35.6, good for 27th among regular punters in the NFL.

Net and gross average are misleading because they fail to take into consideration where the punter is kicking from and what his intentions are for the punt. The Falcons had a far superior offense than nearly every single team on that list save the Eagles, so its highly likely that Koenen was regularly being asked to punt short on a more regular basis since their offense had moved them down the field some.

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#25 : July 29, 2011, 09:39:08 AM

Who cares about a Punter... We got Free tossin the pigskin.

alldaway

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#26 : July 29, 2011, 09:41:12 AM

Hard to do when the right side is weaksauce.


lemmer40

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#27 : July 29, 2011, 09:43:03 AM

Unless you now exactly how the contract is structured and how much money is actually tied to certain accomplishments these numbers mean nothing. The only thing that means anything is the guaranteed portion of these deals. Which in effect thus far have been reported as follows.

Joseph 19 million 7-years = 2.71 per year plus base salaries
Koenen 6.5 million 6-years = 1.08 million per year plus base salaries
Black 11.5  5 years = 2.3 million per year plus base salaries

Thus in guaranteed monies being paid out for the first five years of these three deals is roughly 6.09 million year which is peanuts. Then when you add in base salaries I'm hedging my money on Dominik and the structuring of these deals. I think so many who don't understand the inner workings of NFL contracts get over excited about total monies that are announced.

Another rational and logical thinking person...this board does have a chance...

Ok, your right.  I will ignore all those in the NFL circle on twitter and radio ripping the Bucs over this move and questioning what the Bucs are doing and listen to this guy because he is rational and a logical thinking person.

You're right...everyone on twitter and the radio know best.  Why even hire any GMs at all?  **CENSORED**...the CHEAP ASS GLAZERZ!!!11!!1 could just sign up for twitter and tune into the radio every morning. 

You're right...it's much more of a reasonable and logical approach to judge a team's transactions.

So as fans of the Bucs, this is what it has come down too?  Trying to defend our big signing of a punter? Trying to spin it in a million different ways?  The fact remains we spent way to much money on a punter and as a fan of the Bucs, I'm tired of them getting ripped on by every media outlet.  I'd like to hear them getting talked about positively for once.

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#28 : July 29, 2011, 09:43:40 AM

Net and gross average are misleading because they fail to take into consideration where the punter is kicking from and what his intentions are for the punt. The Falcons had a far superior offense than nearly every single team on that list save the Eagles, so its highly likely that Koenen was regularly being asked to punt short on a more regular basis since their offense had moved them down the field some.

Fine, but bottom of the league net and gross combined with the fact that he is NOT extrodinary with his tb/inside the 20 ratio = average/above average punter.  Maybe someone can find for me that he blew the league away with punts inside the 10 or 5 (because the only stat I can find is inside the 20).  Maybe he is a top 10 punter in the league.  The stats don't bear that out, but it's possible.  However, for anyone to claim that this guy is the best punter in the league (or even one of the best) is unjustifiable imo.  I think we got a top half punter, maybe borderline top 10 (my definition of average or slightly above so), and paid him top of the league money.  That seems to be the unfortunate trend of the Bucs free agency thus far. 

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#29 : July 29, 2011, 09:45:02 AM

Hard to do when the right side is weaksauce.

Maybe its hard when Simms is throwin the ball. Never saw it as a huge problem when Freeman was back there.
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Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Michael Koenen signed a six-year, $19.5 million deal includes $6.5 million gtd. « previous next »
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