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UMiamiBucFan

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« #30 : July 29, 2011, 09:50:05 AM »

Net and gross average are misleading because they fail to take into consideration where the punter is kicking from and what his intentions are for the punt. The Falcons had a far superior offense than nearly every single team on that list save the Eagles, so its highly likely that Koenen was regularly being asked to punt short on a more regular basis since their offense had moved them down the field some.

Fine, but bottom of the league net and gross combined with the fact that he is NOT extrodinary with his tb/inside the 20 ratio = average/above average punter.  Maybe someone can find for me that he blew the league away with punts inside the 10 or 5 (because the only stat I can find is inside the 20).  Maybe he is a top 10 punter in the league.  The stats don't bear that out, but it's possible.  However, for anyone to claim that this guy is the best punter in the league (or even one of the best) is unjustifiable imo.  I think we got a top half punter, maybe borderline top 10 (my definition of average or slightly above so), and paid him top of the league money.  That seems to be the unfortunate trend of the Bucs free agency thus far.

Technically, he is not the highest paid punter in the NFL. Shane Lechler, who is unquestionably the best punter in the league, got a 4 year, 16 million dollar deal last year. Koenen's deal averages out to be 3.33 a year while Lechler's is 4 a year. I personally think Koenen is a top 5 punter in the league, thus I feel like the deal really isn't as out of whack as people are making it out to be.

His kickoffs kind of rock too, I don't think any team will be starting beyond the 20.

BucD

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« #31 : July 29, 2011, 09:53:20 AM »

Net and gross average are misleading because they fail to take into consideration where the punter is kicking from and what his intentions are for the punt. The Falcons had a far superior offense than nearly every single team on that list save the Eagles, so its highly likely that Koenen was regularly being asked to punt short on a more regular basis since their offense had moved them down the field some.

Fine, but bottom of the league net and gross combined with the fact that he is NOT extrodinary with his tb/inside the 20 ratio = average/above average punter.  Maybe someone can find for me that he blew the league away with punts inside the 10 or 5 (because the only stat I can find is inside the 20).  Maybe he is a top 10 punter in the league.  The stats don't bear that out, but it's possible.  However, for anyone to claim that this guy is the best punter in the league (or even one of the best) is unjustifiable imo.  I think we got a top half punter, maybe borderline top 10 (my definition of average or slightly above so), and paid him top of the league money.  That seems to be the unfortunate trend of the Bucs free agency thus far.

Technically, he is not the highest paid punter in the NFL. Shane Lechler, who is unquestionably the best punter in the league, got a 4 year, 16 million dollar deal last year. Koenen's deal averages out to be 3.33 a year while Lechler's is 4 a year. I personally think Koenen is a top 5 punter in the league, thus I feel like the deal really isn't as out of whack as people are making it out to be.

His kickoffs kind of rock too, I don't think any team will be starting beyond the 20.

Trying to talk rationally to some here is a waste of time, bro.  But have at it.

Benchwarmer#1

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« #32 : July 29, 2011, 09:54:11 AM »

I like the signing, but the money is a little steep. Maybe within that allotted timeframe Punters in the future will be twice as paid?

This guy has ruined plenty of teams days. I saw (if I remember it right) that a good punter gives you up to 5% more of a chance to win a game. An that's also accounting for avoiding superior returners and downing it within the 5.

As much as I hate to be the negative guy, I have to ask can he punt well in TB? Anyone on here able to find how well he was outside of Domes? Because kicking anything inside RayJay can be day to day.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

UMiamiBucFan

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« #33 : July 29, 2011, 09:54:20 AM »

BTW, Koenen was 2nd in the league last season in average kickoff yards with 67.6 yards/kickoff. This stat is not nearly as misleading as punt average because you always start in the same spot.

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« #34 : July 29, 2011, 09:58:47 AM »

 :o

Dominik nooooooo!!!!!!

The point of Free Agency is to take a step forward. We are literally spinning our wheels here.

lemmer40

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« #35 : July 29, 2011, 09:59:52 AM »

Net and gross average are misleading because they fail to take into consideration where the punter is kicking from and what his intentions are for the punt. The Falcons had a far superior offense than nearly every single team on that list save the Eagles, so its highly likely that Koenen was regularly being asked to punt short on a more regular basis since their offense had moved them down the field some.

Fine, but bottom of the league net and gross combined with the fact that he is NOT extrodinary with his tb/inside the 20 ratio = average/above average punter.  Maybe someone can find for me that he blew the league away with punts inside the 10 or 5 (because the only stat I can find is inside the 20).  Maybe he is a top 10 punter in the league.  The stats don't bear that out, but it's possible.  However, for anyone to claim that this guy is the best punter in the league (or even one of the best) is unjustifiable imo.  I think we got a top half punter, maybe borderline top 10 (my definition of average or slightly above so), and paid him top of the league money.  That seems to be the unfortunate trend of the Bucs free agency thus far.

Technically, he is not the highest paid punter in the NFL. Shane Lechler, who is unquestionably the best punter in the league, got a 4 year, 16 million dollar deal last year. Koenen's deal averages out to be 3.33 a year while Lechler's is 4 a year. I personally think Koenen is a top 5 punter in the league, thus I feel like the deal really isn't as out of whack as people are making it out to be.

His kickoffs kind of rock too, I don't think any team will be starting beyond the 20.

Trying to talk rationally to some here is a waste of time, bro.  But have at it.

Ok, then I expect everyone on here trying to defend this signing to be the first in line to buy his jersey.  Oh, that right, punters don't put people in the stands and sell merchandise.  The last I checked, the Bucs had an issue selling tickets and signing a punter isn't going to change that. 

I understand why we signed a punter.  We needed one.  I just don't understand why all the money on a punter and why our first "outside" FA is a punter.  It bothers me.

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« #36 : July 29, 2011, 10:00:49 AM »

:o

Dominik nooooooo!!!!!!

The point of Free Agency is to take a step forward. We are literally spinning our wheels here.

 :(  More like sinking into the quicksand.


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« #37 : July 29, 2011, 10:01:06 AM »

BTW, Koenen was 2nd in the league last season in average kickoff yards with 67.6 yards/kickoff. This stat is not nearly as misleading as punt average because you always start in the same spot.

You do realize they moved that kick off spot up 5 yards....smh

DanishBucFan

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« #38 : July 29, 2011, 10:01:27 AM »

Net and gross average are misleading because they fail to take into consideration where the punter is kicking from and what his intentions are for the punt. The Falcons had a far superior offense than nearly every single team on that list save the Eagles, so its highly likely that Koenen was regularly being asked to punt short on a more regular basis since their offense had moved them down the field some.

Fine, but bottom of the league net and gross combined with the fact that he is NOT extrodinary with his tb/inside the 20 ratio = average/above average punter.  Maybe someone can find for me that he blew the league away with punts inside the 10 or 5 (because the only stat I can find is inside the 20).  Maybe he is a top 10 punter in the league.  The stats don't bear that out, but it's possible.  However, for anyone to claim that this guy is the best punter in the league (or even one of the best) is unjustifiable imo.  I think we got a top half punter, maybe borderline top 10 (my definition of average or slightly above so), and paid him top of the league money.  That seems to be the unfortunate trend of the Bucs free agency thus far.

This goes for so many of the FA's being signed these days: Their pay is higher than their talent level. Hence the great attraction in becoming a true free agent.

YReceiver14

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« #39 : July 29, 2011, 10:02:16 AM »

I guess it depends on who in Rotoworld is writing the opinion-blue:

Falcons signed P Michael Koenen, their franchise player, to a one-year, $2.483 million contract.
Though Koenen was below average in many stat categories, his directional punting and hang time keyed an NFL record-low 49 punt return yards during the 2008 season. Koenen is highly talented with a big leg and his relatively low net was fluky because Atlanta often was in excellent field position.
Feb 13, 4:51 PM

Falcons re-signed restricted free agent P Michael Koenen to a one-year, $2.731 million contract.
The salary constitutes 110% of his 2009 base pay, which was required after Atlanta franchise tagged him two winters ago. Koenen, 28 in July, is one of the strongest-legged punters in the game, in addition to being a super kickoff specialist. He'll be a candidate for a long-term deal this summer.
Source: scout.com Apr 22, 3:10 PM

...and even calculating it at $19.5M/6yr, that equals $3.25M.  Hefty for a punter, but not unheard of.

And as Bucs fans, we should have a more accurate opinion of him than most.  I distinctly remember him pinning us back many times over the years.


“Before you can be labeled elite, you’ve got to get a lot closer to having rings.”  --Josh Freeman, May 2012

alldaway

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« #40 : July 29, 2011, 10:02:40 AM »

Net and gross average are misleading because they fail to take into consideration where the punter is kicking from and what his intentions are for the punt. The Falcons had a far superior offense than nearly every single team on that list save the Eagles, so its highly likely that Koenen was regularly being asked to punt short on a more regular basis since their offense had moved them down the field some.

Fine, but bottom of the league net and gross combined with the fact that he is NOT extrodinary with his tb/inside the 20 ratio = average/above average punter.  Maybe someone can find for me that he blew the league away with punts inside the 10 or 5 (because the only stat I can find is inside the 20).  Maybe he is a top 10 punter in the league.  The stats don't bear that out, but it's possible.  However, for anyone to claim that this guy is the best punter in the league (or even one of the best) is unjustifiable imo.  I think we got a top half punter, maybe borderline top 10 (my definition of average or slightly above so), and paid him top of the league money.  That seems to be the unfortunate trend of the Bucs free agency thus far.

Technically, he is not the highest paid punter in the NFL. Shane Lechler, who is unquestionably the best punter in the league, got a 4 year, 16 million dollar deal last year. Koenen's deal averages out to be 3.33 a year while Lechler's is 4 a year. I personally think Koenen is a top 5 punter in the league, thus I feel like the deal really isn't as out of whack as people are making it out to be.

His kickoffs kind of rock too, I don't think any team will be starting beyond the 20.

Trying to talk rationally to some here is a waste of time, bro.  But have at it.

Ok, then I expect everyone on here trying to defend this signing to be the first in line to buy his jersey.  Oh, that right, punters don't put people in the stands and sell merchandise.  The last I checked, the Bucs had an issue selling tickets and signing a punter isn't going to change that. 

I understand why we signed a punter.  We needed one.  I just don't understand why all the money on a punter and why our first "outside" FA is a punter.  It bothers me.

I am 100% in agreement. 

It definitely sends the wrong message to the current ticket holder base or any future potential customer.

BucNY

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« #41 : July 29, 2011, 10:06:09 AM »

I'm not even going to comment on this.

My friend is listing to NFL Sirius radio right now and said they are busting on the Bucs pretty badly right now over this signing.  The Bucs are slowly becoming a laughing stock.  yeah!

If you really think this team is becoming a laughing stock you are a moron.

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UMiamiBucFan

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« #42 : July 29, 2011, 10:08:40 AM »

Net and gross average are misleading because they fail to take into consideration where the punter is kicking from and what his intentions are for the punt. The Falcons had a far superior offense than nearly every single team on that list save the Eagles, so its highly likely that Koenen was regularly being asked to punt short on a more regular basis since their offense had moved them down the field some.

Fine, but bottom of the league net and gross combined with the fact that he is NOT extrodinary with his tb/inside the 20 ratio = average/above average punter.  Maybe someone can find for me that he blew the league away with punts inside the 10 or 5 (because the only stat I can find is inside the 20).  Maybe he is a top 10 punter in the league.  The stats don't bear that out, but it's possible.  However, for anyone to claim that this guy is the best punter in the league (or even one of the best) is unjustifiable imo.  I think we got a top half punter, maybe borderline top 10 (my definition of average or slightly above so), and paid him top of the league money.  That seems to be the unfortunate trend of the Bucs free agency thus far.

Technically, he is not the highest paid punter in the NFL. Shane Lechler, who is unquestionably the best punter in the league, got a 4 year, 16 million dollar deal last year. Koenen's deal averages out to be 3.33 a year while Lechler's is 4 a year. I personally think Koenen is a top 5 punter in the league, thus I feel like the deal really isn't as out of whack as people are making it out to be.

His kickoffs kind of rock too, I don't think any team will be starting beyond the 20.

Trying to talk rationally to some here is a waste of time, bro.  But have at it.

Ok, then I expect everyone on here trying to defend this signing to be the first in line to buy his jersey.  Oh, that right, punters don't put people in the stands and sell merchandise.  The last I checked, the Bucs had an issue selling tickets and signing a punter isn't going to change that. 

I understand why we signed a punter.  We needed one.  I just don't understand why all the money on a punter and why our first "outside" FA is a punter.  It bothers me.

Last season our first and pretty much only "outside" FA was a safety. We went from 3 wins to 10 wins.

alldaway

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« #43 : July 29, 2011, 10:09:20 AM »

I'm not even going to comment on this.

My friend is listing to NFL Sirius radio right now and said they are busting on the Bucs pretty badly right now over this signing.  The Bucs are slowly becoming a laughing stock.  yeah!

If you really think this team is becoming a laughing stock you are a moron.

So what should we make of the Bucs first outside signing, with all this cap space, is a punter?


BucNY

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« #44 : July 29, 2011, 10:12:35 AM »

We needed a punter. It's pretty simple.

Things are going exactly as Dom said they would. Stick to the plan regardless of how many armchair GMs disagree.

Talking heads do not know **CENSORED** about this team or the coaches. Talk to other coaches/colleagues of our staff and they have the utmost respect for them.

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Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Michael Koenen signed a six-year, $19.5 million deal includes $6.5 million gtd. « previous next »
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