Entire U.S. Stealth Fighter Fleet Grounded

[ONEBIGDADDY]

Our company health care cost go up every year and as our employees get older the rates go up. So the answer to the problem is to fire the older ones or have them euthanized which totally uncalled for. I do not have an easy answer just like you and my parents and grand parents have paid for entitlements for people through taxes and such and so will others. Everyone needs to pay their fair share and to get that to happen is near impossible unless you do a straight flat tax and no politician wants to do that...OBD

There goes another one of those worthless slogans, sorry guy, can you please explain to me what is "fair share"? As in actual numbers. How much of my total income should I pay in taxes? 10% 20% 50% how much?

I hear this stated so often and it has absolutely no merit most of the time. Just like the euthanize comment. Typical, 100% statements lacking in any real fact.

Ummm Freddy it wasn't being said in sarcasim it was actually based like whats do you think should be done? I am sorry If I didn't hit that point strong enough for you to understand my thoughts and not convey them properly. I just think we have way too many corporations telling the american people whats best and then say they can't give it to them unless they pay more for it or they don't offer it anymore because they couldn't make the same profits as they did before. Did I ever tell you that every piece of insurance sold today from any agency gives their/themselves a bonus every two weeks? Hmmm is that on the table too? Are they really paying their fair share out? What happens when no hurricanes hit florida in three years. Hmmm going back to state lines and profits payout...anyway I am on a rant and could go on further but that would expose more than I think would do any good on a message board...I have very close family members who work for the insurance industry as well as good friends here on this board...A FLAT TAX FOR ALL AMERICANS WOULD DO BEST in my VHO...OBD

[ONEBIGDADDY]

Our company health care cost go up every year and as our employees get older the rates go up. So the answer to the problem is to fire the older ones or have them euthanized which totally uncalled for. I do not have an easy answer just like you and my parents and grand parents have paid for entitlements for people through taxes and such and so will others. Everyone needs to pay their fair share and to get that to happen is near impossible unless you do a straight flat tax and no politician wants to do that...OBD

There goes another one of those worthless slogans, sorry guy, can you please explain to me what is "fair share"? As in actual numbers. How much of my total income should I pay in taxes? 10% 20% 50% how much?

I hear this stated so often and it has absolutely no merit most of the time. Just like the euthanize comment. Typical, 100% statements lacking in any real fact.

By the way I do see the payment go up every six months/ year due to increases in HC insurance for our company. Our employees who have to insurer themselves and their family get raped by the IC and then if one has Cancer we pay more in premiums. Do you ever see how that works for small businesses. It sucks to say were sorry we have to let you go or we have to increase our rates...We keep our employees by the way. In this economy you can't fire your good employees and then hire unprovened employee to fill in. One mistake from new employee is disasterous...OBD

[Freddy]

Our company health care cost go up every year and as our employees get older the rates go up. So the answer to the problem is to fire the older ones or have them euthanized which totally uncalled for. I do not have an easy answer just like you and my parents and grand parents have paid for entitlements for people through taxes and such and so will others. Everyone needs to pay their fair share and to get that to happen is near impossible unless you do a straight flat tax and no politician wants to do that...OBD

There goes another one of those worthless slogans, sorry guy, can you please explain to me what is "fair share"? As in actual numbers. How much of my total income should I pay in taxes? 10% 20% 50% how much?

I hear this stated so often and it has absolutely no merit most of the time. Just like the euthanize comment. Typical, 100% statements lacking in any real fact.

Ummm Freddy it wasn't being said in sarcasim it was actually based like whats do you think should be done? I am sorry If I didn't hit that point strong enough for you to understand my thoughts and not convey them properly. I just think we have way too many corporations telling the american people whats best and then say they can't give it to them unless they pay more for it or they don't offer it anymore because they couldn't make the same profits as they did before. Did I ever tell you that every piece of insurance sold today from any agency gives their/themselves a bonus every two weeks? Hmmm is that on the table too? Are they really paying their fair share out? What happens when no hurricanes hit florida in three years. Hmmm going back to state lines and profits payout...anyway I am on a rant and could go on further but that would expose more than I think would do any good on a message board...I have very close family members who work for the insurance industry as well as good friends here on this board...A FLAT TAX FOR ALL AMERICANS WOULD DO BEST in my VHO...OBD

You do realize that the sole purpose of any business is to make money right? Not create jobs, give health insurance, support a community or pay taxes. I own a business, and if I have a choice of reducing my personal profits or letting an employee go, even a struggling single mother, then she is gone. I owe her nothing. She would dump me in a heart beat if she was offered a new job with a big pay raise. Is it cold hearted, maybe, but that is how it is.

And lets talk about GE for a moment. Supposedly they paid zero taxes last year huh? Total falsehood. They paid millions in FICA, unemployment, workers comp and other taxes. Heck, I pay more each year in those taxes than I do on taxes on any profits I make, nearly 10 fold. Saying they paid nothing in taxes is just more political rhetoric , just like "euthanize grandma", and "pay your fair share".

Now, while I did catch the sarcasm in the euthanize comment the "everyone should pay their fair share" I doubt was sarcasm.

Quick note, you do realize, if the tax system changes to the flat tax or even national sales tax, you are rooting for 1000's of people to lose their jobs. Not just the IRS either. How many tax prepares are out there. 10's of thousands each with multiple employee's. Then there are the accountants at businesses, tax lawyers, teachers, and so on. If there is a flat tax, a lot of people will lose there job overnight. So I think they might not be too happy with a change.

[ONEBIGDADDY]

Our company health care cost go up every year and as our employees get older the rates go up. So the answer to the problem is to fire the older ones or have them euthanized which totally uncalled for. I do not have an easy answer just like you and my parents and grand parents have paid for entitlements for people through taxes and such and so will others. Everyone needs to pay their fair share and to get that to happen is near impossible unless you do a straight flat tax and no politician wants to do that...OBD

There goes another one of those worthless slogans, sorry guy, can you please explain to me what is "fair share"? As in actual numbers. How much of my total income should I pay in taxes? 10% 20% 50% how much?

I hear this stated so often and it has absolutely no merit most of the time. Just like the euthanize comment. Typical, 100% statements lacking in any real fact.

Ummm Freddy it wasn't being said in sarcasim it was actually based like whats do you think should be done? I am sorry If I didn't hit that point strong enough for you to understand my thoughts and not convey them properly. I just think we have way too many corporations telling the american people whats best and then say they can't give it to them unless they pay more for it or they don't offer it anymore because they couldn't make the same profits as they did before. Did I ever tell you that every piece of insurance sold today from any agency gives their/themselves a bonus every two weeks? Hmmm is that on the table too? Are they really paying their fair share out? What happens when no hurricanes hit florida in three years. Hmmm going back to state lines and profits payout...anyway I am on a rant and could go on further but that would expose more than I think would do any good on a message board...I have very close family members who work for the insurance industry as well as good friends here on this board...A FLAT TAX FOR ALL AMERICANS WOULD DO BEST in my VHO...OBD

You do realize that the sole purpose of any business is to make money right? Not create jobs, give health insurance, support a community or pay taxes. I own a business, and if I have a choice of reducing my personal profits or letting an employee go, even a struggling single mother, then she is gone. I owe her nothing. She would dump me in a heart beat if she was offered a new job with a big pay raise. Is it cold hearted, maybe, but that is how it is.

And lets talk about GE for a moment. Supposedly they paid zero taxes last year huh? Total falsehood. They paid millions in FICA, unemployment, workers comp and other taxes. Heck, I pay more each year in those taxes than I do on taxes on any profits I make, nearly 10 fold. Saying they paid nothing in taxes is just more political rhetoric , just like "euthanize grandma", and "pay your fair share".

Now, while I did catch the sarcasm in the euthanize comment the "everyone should pay their fair share" I doubt was sarcasm.

Quick note, you do realize, if the tax system changes to the flat tax or even national sales tax, you are rooting for 1000's of people to lose their jobs. Not just the IRS either. How many tax prepares are out there. 10's of thousands each with multiple employee's. Then there are the accountants at businesses, tax lawyers, teachers, and so on. If there is a flat tax, a lot of people will lose there job overnight. So I think they might not be too happy with a change.

Um Freddy I think your embelishing...I know what taxes are being paid and also what are benefits. If you treat your employees like garbage then I feel sorry for you. We have integrity and loyality in our company which brings rewards. In this economy we all are suffering but in your ecomony only the ones who once performed for your bank account to be benefitted will endure. Those who are struck with an illness beyond their control get to see what loyality you give them in reward for them giving your theirs. I don't think your for real...Nice talking with you but smell ya later...OBD

[Freddy]

LOL OBD, don't run away mad when you got owned. If you had anything to do with business, you know I speak the cold hard truth. What you say about keeping employees and such is all nice nice, but impractical. And you are wrong about replacing people in this economy. If I placed an ad for a position, at least 50 people would apply for it. Most over qualified and each willing to take less than the next. During the boom years, the ad would go unanswered at times. So it is actually a lot easier to replace people now than ever before. You say you have integrity and loyalty, what happens if the company goes belly up, where is the integrity then? Where is the integrity when another company offers you a better job and you bolt. Why did you not remain loyal to your current company and remain at far less pay. You wouldn't. If you did, then I feel sorry for you.

In reality, I doubt you have any real idea what owning a business is like. You may be in a business and even see some of the books, but flipping burgers and actually owning the franchise are two different things. Apparently all you know how to do is repeat political slogans like a loyal clone. I tried to have a civilized discussion with you but you dodged every question with more political slogans. You still have not told me what my fair share of taxes should be although you don't think I pay it.

Now if you want to discuss this matter, then so be it. And yes maybe I did embellish a little on how many people would lose their jobs due to a flat tax, but I didn't  think I'd have to identify sarcasm to a professional.

[Freddy]

Come on ODB, answer just one question....


You own a business. Business has slowed a little bit. Your son is a Freshman at USF. because of reduced business, you have two choices, You can tell your son sorry, you have to go to Community College now or you can let a 10 year employee go. Note letting the employee go does not in any way hinder production.

Do you keep the employee or take your kid out of college?  Remember, integrity and loyalty. The question is, who deserves it more, your kid or you employee.

Have the courage to answer this one with honesty.

[ONEBIGDADDY]

Freddy your a great follower but not a Leader...It goes to show Leaders aren't made....OBD

[ONEBIGDADDY]

Come on ODB, answer just one question....


You own a business. Business has slowed a little bit. Your son is a Freshman at USF. because of reduced business, you have two choices, You can tell your son sorry, you have to go to Community College now or you can let a 10 year employee go. Note letting the employee go does not in any way hinder production.

Do you keep the employee or take your kid out of college?  Remember, integrity and loyalty. The question is, who deserves it more, your kid or you employee.

Have the courage to answer this one with honesty.

LOL your college analogy is terrible. I paid for my kids scholarship before I ran a business. Because I knew how to save my money and be conservative with it. I didn't take anything out of the company. Be a Leader because it sounds like you have great knowledge of being a follower. Honor and Integrity is something that you do learn how you apply it shows your heart. Bye Now...Be a Good Follower...OBD

[Freddy]

OBD,
 Once again you avoid the question with slogans. Answer the question, change college for whatever you want. The point is, which do you choose, take something away from your family or let an employee go. It is a very hard decision to make and one you appear unwilling to make. You say I'm not a good leader, yet a leader leads, in good times and bad. A leader makes the hard decisions. I have stood up and made my decision while you sit back and absolutely refuse to make a decision.

Also note, just because I decide to let an employee go does not mean I felt nothing. Yes, especially when a good employee I've known for a long time leaves, I feel bad and try and think of what could have been done to keep them. But any decent business leader knows that emotion does not mix with business. Apparently you haven't figured that out yet.

[Skull and Bones]

Come on ODB, answer just one question....


You own a business. Business has slowed a little bit. Your son is a Freshman at USF. because of reduced business, you have two choices, You can tell your son sorry, you have to go to Community College now or you can let a 10 year employee go. Note letting the employee go does not in any way hinder production.

Do you keep the employee or take your kid out of college?  Remember, integrity and loyalty. The question is, who deserves it more, your kid or you employee.

Have the courage to answer this one with honesty.

USF is pretty much just a large community college anyways.  no same in going the cc route.  it's actually smarter.

[Freddy]

Come on ODB, answer just one question....


You own a business. Business has slowed a little bit. Your son is a Freshman at USF. because of reduced business, you have two choices, You can tell your son sorry, you have to go to Community College now or you can let a 10 year employee go. Note letting the employee go does not in any way hinder production.

Do you keep the employee or take your kid out of college?  Remember, integrity and loyalty. The question is, who deserves it more, your kid or you employee.

Have the courage to answer this one with honesty.

USF is pretty much just a large community college anyways.  no same in going the cc route.  it's actually smarter.

I was just picking a college at random, make it Princeton or UCLA or UVA, or even from community college to none at all. Or just make it money, like I posted in a new thread, do you take a $40k personal pay cut or let an employee go?

[Skull and Bones]

capitalism is founded on the principle of looking out for numero uno.

[dbucfan]

OBD,
 Once again you avoid the question with slogans. Answer the question, change college for whatever you want. The point is, which do you choose, take something away from your family or let an employee go. It is a very hard decision to make and one you appear unwilling to make. You say I'm not a good leader, yet a leader leads, in good times and bad. A leader makes the hard decisions. I have stood up and made my decision while you sit back and absolutely refuse to make a decision.

Also note, just because I decide to let an employee go does not mean I felt nothing. Yes, especially when a good employee I've known for a long time leaves, I feel bad and try and think of what could have been done to keep them. But any decent business leader knows that emotion does not mix with business. Apparently you haven't figured that out yet.

I find it more than a bit interesting that the first thing we took care of when our business made money was kids educations...  I'm not sure why you picked that item.

But - there is more to it when one steps back.  A determination has to be made as to what is best for the business.  There are multiple reasons for carrying an employee through a slack time.  Using the business model over a period of time makes the decision, as an owner one then deals with what is best.

Ooops - imvho - wanted to add that.

[John Galt?]

OK John let talk pre-existing a moment OK. And lets try and continue to be un-Washington like as I think we've had a civil conversation so far.

Yeah, okay. You initially put me off with that "ONLY" ( I detest absolutes ), but otherwise quite good.

I'm not 100% locked into a position on this as what I think is fair and sensible does not match with what I think is morally correct. If an insurance company is forced to accept people no matter of pre-existing conditions, that raises the costs for those that do not have those conditions.

Now my idea was insurance cos. had to accept pre-existing conditions (with exceptions for pregnancy, illegal drug use, and a few others) BUT not at the same premium. IOW, if they are offering a 35yo non-smoker a policy at $275.00/mo then a 35 yo non-smoker with diabetes has to be accepted but at $275 + X or $275* Y%.

Clearly a young non-smoking non-bad health lifestyle person should get a lower rate than someone with "baggage", just saying accept the baggage and charge a baggage fee. If they can't afford the baggage fee, that's where the state govt. steps in. Or there can be insurance cos that specialize in "high risk" (free market says niches will be filled) that can provide coverage for those special cases.

Then we have to ask what is pre-existing? If it means what it means under Obama-fail, then people can opt out of any and all insurances and just wait until they get sick. Why pay premiums for years, wait until you get sick. They have to accept you. That alone would drive insurances companies into default. It's almost like allowing people to buy life insurance on a loved one up to 30 days after they have died.

That is why you'd have to require HC insurance for all. Sort of like auto insurance. Now for the Fed to do this (ala Obamacare) raises some serious Constitutional problems, but for States to do this, all good on the Constitutional front.

Now how we set up a mandatory HC insurance law is another debate, because there are thousands of ways to address it. But you have to have a mechanism that prevents individuals from waiting to get insurance until it is too late.

In reality this demonstrates one of the biggest problems in HC. No matter what system there is, there is a horror story that can demonstrate it's failings.

Why I want a state by state program. Better to have 50 different plans flush out all the goblins than one giant plan that could sink us all.

[Freddy]

I'm not sure if I like the idea of 50 different plans. But like you said there won't be as most will wait to see what is working in others. If this were to be done, I think via states may be the least painful to the least amount of people.