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GameTime

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#15 : August 24, 2011, 09:28:59 PM

i dont see a problem at all.  why do they need extra cash on top of the thousands worth of living and schooling they receive?

as for graduate scholarships, arent we on a completely different level?  i dont know anything about those, except for the player probably wouldnt still be eligible to play football.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

TheAman

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#16 : August 24, 2011, 09:46:39 PM

Actually, grad students can play football, as long as they haven't used all their eligibilty. 

And to answer your question, why do normal students need extra cash on top of the thousands worth of living and schooling they receive?  Because they want to have a life outside the college campus.  They want to afford to be able to go to movies, or take a girl out to dinner.  But they can't do that.  And at the same time, the university is selling their jerseys in the bookstore for $70 and the players aren't seeing a dime of it.  In any other setting, this would be illegal.  But because you slap the random term "amateur" on them, they can't make any money while they're in college.


GameTime

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#17 : August 25, 2011, 10:06:34 AM

Actually, grad students can play football, as long as they haven't used all their eligibilty. 

And to answer your question, why do normal students need extra cash on top of the thousands worth of living and schooling they receive?  Because they want to have a life outside the college campus.  They want to afford to be able to go to movies, or take a girl out to dinner.  But they can't do that.  And at the same time, the university is selling their jerseys in the bookstore for $70 and the players aren't seeing a dime of it.  In any other setting, this would be illegal.  But because you slap the random term "amateur" on them, they can't make any money while they're in college.

has there ever been a grad student who received those "huge stipends" and played college football at the same time?

and did you read the first post in this thread?  a pell grant gives a play $500 a month.  you cant take a girl out to dinner with $500 a month?  movies?  c'mon.

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Skull and Bones

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#18 : August 25, 2011, 10:49:41 AM

Hey the answer is go to Miami they evidently treat their players real good!! :o

not so quick though...seems odd to me with consistent 8-5 seasons that fsu has quickly and impressively notched some top5 classes the last few years...

that said, i think every school is probably doing something shady...some just better than others.  and no runole, i do not think fsu is doing anything close to miami...but it does raise an eyebrow to me.
probably free shoes


TheAman

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#19 : August 25, 2011, 03:46:31 PM


and did you read the first post in this thread?  a pell grant gives a play $500 a month.  you cant take a girl out to dinner with $500 a month?  movies?  c'mon.

Why should it only be 500?  When Boise State is selling game-worn jerseys in the bookstore, why aren't the players seeing anything from it?  Plus, not all players are getting Pell Grants, though admittedly, a lot are.  Also, there have been a lot of issues with Pell Grants lately.  The schools tend to give them to the students late, which sometimes cause major issues.

The fact is, the athletes are being treated differently from every other student.  If you want to say that students can't get paid at all, fine, but there's no reason that athletes should be not allowed to make money off of their skills when every other person at the university can.

Runole

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#20 : August 25, 2011, 06:37:04 PM


and did you read the first post in this thread?  a pell grant gives a play $500 a month.  you cant take a girl out to dinner with $500 a month?  movies?  c'mon.

Why should it only be 500?  When Boise State is selling game-worn jerseys in the bookstore, why aren't the players seeing anything from it?  Plus, not all players are getting Pell Grants, though admittedly, a lot are.  Also, there have been a lot of issues with Pell Grants lately.  The schools tend to give them to the students late, which sometimes cause major issues.

The fact is, the athletes are being treated differently from every other student.  If you want to say that students can't get paid at all, fine, but there's no reason that athletes should be not allowed to make money off of their skills when every other person at the university can.


Exactly, they are getting treated differently that every other student.  They are getting free room and board and an education and perks that are unavailable to those regular students that are actually at the school trying  to get an a higher education.


Quote from: GameTime on August 24, 2011, 02:51:33 PM

    Quote from: Runole on August 24, 2011, 12:04:25 AM

        Hey the answer is go to Miami they evidently treat their players real good!! :o


    not so quick though...seems odd to me with consistent 8-5 seasons that fsu has quickly and impressively notched some top5 classes the last few years...

    that said, i think every school is probably doing something shady...some just better than others.  and no runole, i do not think fsu is doing anything close to miami...but it does raise an eyebrow to me.


probably free shoes


I think you got FSU confused with the QB at LSU..

49 pairs!  WOW!    Rumor has it video tapes shows he missed the guys head 3 times trying to kick it!  :D

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/25/police-seize-49-pairs-of-shoes-from-jordan-jeffersons-apartment/related/

FSU has always recruited well ever since Bobby took over the program.  They have a very simple methodology they avoid negative recruiting and stay away from those kids wishing to get their wallets fattened to sign.  They usually lose those to the SEC or Miami.

Oh and when FSU gets charged with a  lack of institutional control they may in fact be ready to join that list of everyone that cheats and ignores it.


TheAman

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#21 : August 25, 2011, 06:42:11 PM


Exactly, they are getting treated differently that every other student.  They are getting free room and board and an education and perks that are unavailable to those regular students that are actually at the school trying  to get an a higher education.


Really?  There's no such thing as academic scholarships?  Last I checked, I know a ton of students who are getting full room and board for academic scholarships.  AND they are getting more money from writing for the school newspaper, or working for the SGA, or any number of things that schools allow students to do.  Do you know why schools give out academic scholarships?  Because they think hope they can make money from it down the line, whether it's from them donating, or for getting someone famous to graduate through the university that makes more people.  The reason football players get scholarships is because the schools know they can make money off those football players right now.

GameTime

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#22 : August 25, 2011, 08:03:31 PM

so how would you do it Aman?  how should college players get paid?

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TheAman

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#23 : August 25, 2011, 11:46:31 PM

I'd use the Olympic system.  Olympic doesn't pay directly, but if someone wants to sponsor the players, they're allowed to do that and still remain amateurs.

Runole

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#24 : August 26, 2011, 08:10:54 AM


Exactly, they are getting treated differently that every other student.  They are getting free room and board and an education and perks that are unavailable to those regular students that are actually at the school trying  to get an a higher education.


Really?  There's no such thing as academic scholarships?  Last I checked, I know a ton of students who are getting full room and board for academic scholarships.  AND they are getting more money from writing for the school newspaper, or working for the SGA, or any number of things that schools allow students to do.  Do you know why schools give out academic scholarships?  Because they think hope they can make money from it down the line, whether it's from them donating, or for getting someone famous to graduate through the university that makes more people.  The reason football players get scholarships is because the schools know they can make money off those football players right now.


Uh an academic scholarship is actually based on academic accomplishment at the secondary level.  Remind me what great academic achievements are being made by most student?? athletes that wouldn't even be able to enroll in college based on their actual academic scores.

Many of these academic scholarships are not even close to the full 5 year rides given to a football player on scholarship. 

Hey I understand perfectly that the typical football player has little respect for the opportunity to get an education in college that is why they want to be paid like a professional to play a game.

Again, I think someone getting a full ride with meals and board and additionally 17 k  a year for incidentals can certainly get by.   ( This is from the article linked)

All this being said the real slime balls in this whole issue are those individuals profiting immensely from the BCS whether it is bowl officials, or conference commissioners.  The BCS slush fund is not helping the schools or the athletes that it is profiting from.

CFB needs a playoff the current system is totally corrupt.   

If that were to happen there actually could be an increase in the stipend received by football players.  That guys like Slive and Swoffard are getting a kickback of a million a year from the BCS people stinks to high heaven!




Bucman

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#25 : August 26, 2011, 03:29:45 PM

I'd use the Olympic system.  Olympic doesn't pay directly, but if someone wants to sponsor the players, they're allowed to do that and still remain amateurs.
I agree with this. Colleges not directly paying the player(s). But if he is good enough to get a sponsorship from nike or someone. Then why not?


Biggs3535

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#26 : August 26, 2011, 07:49:58 PM

I'd use the Olympic system.  Olympic doesn't pay directly, but if someone wants to sponsor the players, they're allowed to do that and still remain amateurs.
I agree with this. Colleges not directly paying the player(s). But if he is good enough to get a sponsorship from nike or someone. Then why not?

You'll run into the Booster problem.  They'll "sponsor" the best players to go to their alma mater.


John Galt?

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#27 : August 27, 2011, 04:39:28 PM

Academic scholarships are year by year and you are required to maintain a very high GPA, not the 2.0 required by athletes. Apples and oranges really, some academic schollys don't cover room, many don't cover food. FB and BB schollys cover all room and board, free food at the cafeteria, clothing allotment, full access to ALL campus facilities, free tuition and free books (if the school requires a PC or laptop, that too is provided).



And to answer your question, why do normal students need extra cash on top of the thousands worth of living and schooling they receive?  Because they want to have a life outside the college campus.  They want to afford to be able to go to movies, or take a girl out to dinner.  But they can't do that.  And at the same time, the university is selling their jerseys in the bookstore for $70 and the players aren't seeing a dime of it.  In any other setting, this would be illegal.  But because you slap the random term "amateur" on them, they can't make any money while they're in college.


Quote
The typical non-freshman Arkansas football player received the cash listed below in 2010-11:
$5,500- Pell Grant
$500- Clothing Fund
$8,024- Fall and Spring Room and Board
$3,016- Summer Room and Board

$17,040- Grand Total

Remember, this excludes any money from the Student-Athlete Opportunity Fund, the Special Assistance Fund, and any occasional meals provided by boosters. Monthly, football players are looking at $1,420 cash in their pocket without having to buy books or pay tuition and fees. Did you have $1,420 of cash every month in college?

Come on? You can't go to a movie or buy a girl a burger for under $1420/month? What, are you flying to LA to catch the premier?

And the article doesn't even mention student loans. That's another $5,500-$9,500/yr.

The thing is these student athletes are getting an opportunity to make Million$ right after they leave school, whether they graduate or not. What other types of students on scholarship can expect a 5 to 6 figure signing bonus? What other types of scholarship students can get 6 to 7 figure jobs WITHOUT GRADUATING??

And no, most college football players cannot get jobs.  Between classes, homework, official practices, workouts and games, they have basically no time on their schedule.

Really?? official practices aren't limited to 15 hours a week? And do games and practices run 52 weeks a year?? Why can't a football player get a summer job? Why not a job working Jan-July??

Let's look at that schedule:

Classes- 12-15 hours/wk
Homework- another 12-15 hours (though I never spent that much time) if they are taking REAL classes and not "Music Appreciation" or Phys Ed.
official practices, walk thrus, meetings, training workouts- limited by the NCAA to no more than 20 hours/week and no more than 4 hours in any day DURING THE SEASON, in the spring they are limited to a maximum of 8 hours/wk
Games- all of Saturday

So between Sept- Dec. that is 50 hours out of 144 (24x6) allow 8 hrs/day for sleep and 2 hrs for meals still leaves 34 hours of free time . How can they not fit a 20-30 hr/wk job in those 34 free hours?

And Between Jan-April that is 38 hours out of 168-70=98. That's 60 free hours/wk if they want extra cash work 20 of those 60 hours.

And between May and Aug. there is no class or homework or meetings, practices, etc. so why can't they work then?

: August 27, 2011, 04:44:29 PM John Galt?


TheAman

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#28 : August 27, 2011, 07:41:18 PM

A player can't get a summer job, because most take summer classes.  And while there aren't official practices, there are constant workouts.  I know a DT for a D1 schools who's summer schedule included 3 classes, daily workouts, plus community outreach, so no, he couldn't get a job.

Runole

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#29 : August 28, 2011, 02:25:17 PM

A player can't get a summer job, because most take summer classes.  And while there aren't official practices, there are constant workouts.  I know a DT for a D1 schools who's summer schedule included 3 classes, daily workouts, plus community outreach, so no, he couldn't get a job.

So why do they have to take Summer classes? 

Should regular students who work out every day get paid?

The constant poor mouthing of hard the football player has it is absurd..    Every time they step on the field they are getting marketed to Millions of people on TV and in the stands..  How valuable is that? 

A football player at any Division One school that never ever played a game his whole time can walk into any business with a grad of that school and say I played football for " so and so"  and he is more than likely in the door even if he isn't really qualified for the job he is seeking.  Heck they can train him!  They can use him to market their product! 

Each player has been given an incredible privilege to be at a Division One program.  There truthfully is nothing more needed than that.  It is up to the player to take it from there. 
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