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jerseybucsfan

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« #15 : August 18, 2011, 10:48:31 PM »

Sometimes penalties are good things like Sapp's personal foul in the Baltimore game in 2002. I love Foster. He's gonna be a good one.

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« #16 : August 19, 2011, 12:07:44 AM »

Sometimes penalties are good things like Sapp's personal foul in the Baltimore game in 2002. I love Foster. He's gonna be a good one.
True but Fosters hit was all about timing. He got to Ocho when the ball did and Ocho was already low to the ground to catch the ball. They penalized Foster for being in the right place right time when Ocho was in the wrong place right time.
Intentional helmet to helmet is one thing but incidental contact when the QB had no business throwing the ball in such a small window is another. Regardless of the penalty, I bet Brady wont put Ocho in the situation again.

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bashear

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« #17 : August 19, 2011, 12:15:59 AM »

The tough thing about hits like those is that if the offensive player can get lower quicker than the tackler, a flag will be thrown. It's not like Foster was launching himself at Chad's head--Chad just got down quicker. I don't think it was as flagrant a hit as the announcers seemed to think it was.


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« #18 : August 19, 2011, 12:23:45 AM »

Calls like that are ruining the game. How are you supposed to play defense?

Exactly. The game is played to fast to avoid these kind of hits. The flagrant hits that can be avoided should be flagged. But a bang bang play like that need not be flagged.

And in the new kickoff rule. Why not just spot the ball at the twenty and eliminate the kickoff all together. Jeez

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« #19 : August 19, 2011, 12:26:23 AM »

Players are eventually going to have to adopt a hockey move and just try hip checking guys on these types of plays. I think that's basically the only way left that won't get you a personal foul, although I'm sure Goodell would find a way to work that in too.


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« #20 : August 19, 2011, 12:45:49 AM »

Looked like shoulder to helmet to me.
Shoulder to helmet is still illegal if I'm not mistaken. It's any blow to the head that's now outlawed.

Legal or not, I loved the hit, especially on Ocho Cinco. You only get shots like those every so often and Foster took full advantage. Plus, those kind of hits are nearly unavoidable

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« #21 : August 19, 2011, 01:00:50 AM »

In Ruud's 5 years or so here, how many hits did he get like that???



i can't remember ANY!!


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« #22 : August 19, 2011, 01:07:40 AM »

In Ruud's 5 years or so here, how many hits did he get like that???


Yup Yup Yup.

I thought it was legal

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« #23 : August 19, 2011, 01:08:16 AM »

In Ruud's 5 years or so here, how many hits did he get like that???



i can't remember ANY!!
none.. rudd would have waited till he got up off the floor so he could drag him down from behind

but i can recall rudd being hit like that tho.. numerously

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« #24 : August 19, 2011, 01:27:52 AM »

According to this section from the NFL rulebook, Foster's hit was illegal

 
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Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8 (Unnecessary roughness) in the NFL rulebook

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures, including but not limited to:

(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; or

(2) Lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily making forcible contact with the “hairline” or forehead part of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body; or

(3) “Launching” (springing forward and upward) into a defenseless player, or otherwise striking him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet or facemask to forcibly strike the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the defenseless player’s neck. (Examples: a defender buries his facemask into a defenseless player’s high chest area, but the defender’s trajectory as he leaps into the defenseless player causes the defender’s helmet to strike the defenseless player violently in the head or face; or a defender, using a face-on posture or with his head slightly lowered, hits a defenseless player in an area below the defenseless player’s neck, then the defender’s head moves upward, resulting in strong contact by the defender’s mask or helmet with the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face [an example is the so-called “dip and rip” technique]).
Note: The provisions of section (f) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or noncrown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on an opponent.

(g) if the initial force of the contact by a defender’s helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of a defenseless player.

Note: Defenseless players in (f) and (g) shall include (i) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (ii) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; (iii) a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (iv) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (v) a player on the ground at the end of a play.

h) If a receiver has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself, a defensive player is prohibited from launching (springing forward and upward) into him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm to forcibly strike the receiver’s head or neck area—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm is lower than the receiver’s neck.

Watch it again. I think he's guilty in these terms I posted from the rulebook. Hard to come to terms with but I still liked the aggressiveness

« : August 19, 2011, 01:29:29 AM nttnybuc »

notabucsfan

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« #25 : August 19, 2011, 02:26:39 AM »

Hit looked pretty good to me. Could of went either way.

threadkiller

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« #26 : August 19, 2011, 02:44:20 AM »

According to this section from the NFL rulebook, Foster's hit was illegal

 
Quote
Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8 (Unnecessary roughness) in the NFL rulebook

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures, including but not limited to:

(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; or

(2) Lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily making forcible contact with the “hairline” or forehead part of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body; or

(3) “Launching” (springing forward and upward) into a defenseless player, or otherwise striking him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet or facemask to forcibly strike the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the defenseless player’s neck. (Examples: a defender buries his facemask into a defenseless player’s high chest area, but the defender’s trajectory as he leaps into the defenseless player causes the defender’s helmet to strike the defenseless player violently in the head or face; or a defender, using a face-on posture or with his head slightly lowered, hits a defenseless player in an area below the defenseless player’s neck, then the defender’s head moves upward, resulting in strong contact by the defender’s mask or helmet with the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face [an example is the so-called “dip and rip” technique]).
Note: The provisions of section (f) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or noncrown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on an opponent.

(g) if the initial force of the contact by a defender’s helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of a defenseless player.

Note: Defenseless players in (f) and (g) shall include (i) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (ii) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; (iii) a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (iv) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (v) a player on the ground at the end of a play.

h) If a receiver has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself, a defensive player is prohibited from launching (springing forward and upward) into him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm to forcibly strike the receiver’s head or neck area—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm is lower than the receiver’s neck.

Watch it again. I think he's guilty in these terms I posted from the rulebook. Hard to come to terms with but I still liked the aggressiveness



If the game was officiated strictly by those rules no one would watch it, and there would be almost no way to stop an offense.  If that was the only bad call by the crew tonight it could be excusable.  The hold on Penn and personal foul on McKenzie were brutal as well.  We got whipped on both sides of the ball and out coached, but those 3 calls made 1st team snaps look much worse then they were. 

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« #27 : August 19, 2011, 04:42:38 AM »

A cleaner video


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« #28 : August 19, 2011, 11:46:03 AM »

I see so many running backs lowering the head when they get close to a defender who is about to tackle them.  If they throw the flag on the defense, then they need to throw it on the offense too.

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« #29 : August 19, 2011, 11:48:35 AM »

Pretty soon it will be flag football.
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