Freeman "ELITE" QB

[Detrimental]

That's a good point ^ but the only slight thing I'd bring up is that ironically Brees' numbers shot up after the pass rule changes. Freeman has it where the passing rules are easier than Brees had it.

[Theoldbuc]

No one has been proven right yet. Homers are homers because they want to believe and hope for the best.  Detractors seem to be hoping a player fails and take delight in that. Kind of like an overly critical wife.  Those who say Freeman is as bad as last year ignore the fact that we scored on the opening drive in every game and he has more TD's than ints. I don't think you can make and overall case that there is no improvement from 2011. That is pessimism in the highest. Easy to call a bust, as most 1st round QB's are. The beauty for you is when you are proven wrong (and you will be) nobody will care. We'll just celebrate the Bucs'/Freeman's success! Detractors, on the other hand, what will they do?

 you can say I'm a detractor if you will, but I've said from day 1 that Freeman isn't the stud qb that the homers want to believe he is. It's not that I want Freeman to fail, because then the Bucs fail. I root for the Bucs and want them to be a perennial playoff team. I simply see a mediocre at best qb, and I want the Bucs to do better.
The problem I've had with Freeman is,  imo, he hasn't shown the ability to develop. The same traits are existing now, that existed day one, again, in my own opinion, he's inaccurate, doesn't look off coverage, and I truly believe coaches have to dumb down the offense to allow Freeman to be successful.
Sure, it's easy to say I'm wrong and I'm a troll, but that's far from the truth. I simply see a qb who isn't good, isn't getting better, and is holding the Bucs back.
 But it's just as easy to say homers are blind and don't want to admit that a player is a bust. Those fans will blame everyone else around Freeman for Freeman's failures. But when V Jackson and Dallas Clark are looking at Freeman and giving him the "wtf was that?" look, the focus truly has to go to Freeman.

Didn't see that. But wouldn't you agree that it takes some consistency to develop? The 2009 season had no consistency. The 2010 season saw a lot of improvisation. Then last year demonstrated that the coaching staff was in over their heads. Who, seriously, would develop under those circumstances? There is a definite need for development and the environment seems to be right for that. Sullivan and Turner have great resumes. If he has talent, I think he does, if he is coachable, I think that progress will be seen mid to late 2012. If we make the playoffs it could get real exciting, if I am right.

[Theoldbuc]

Freeman's career numbers:

1395 Attempts, 836 Completions = 59.9%
9389 Passing Yards = 6.7 YPA
55 TD's
49 INT's

Eli Manning's career numbers at the same point in his career as Freeman is now:

1382 Attempts, 755 Completions = 54.6%
8804 Passing Yards = 6.4 YPA
60 TD's
48 INT's

Drew Brees at the same point:

981 Attempts, 579 Completions = 59.0%
6089 Passing Yards = 6.2 YPA
32 TD's
33 INT's

QB's have started out worst than Free and have become "ELITE" franchise guys. True story.

Let us hope!

[BucBalla85]

I just hope they make sure hes the guy or isnt the guy. This franchise has seen good players leave only because they sucked here. Lets make sure here. I mean it may not be all his fault. Sounds like the recievers arent getting open. Everybody knows about the playcalls. I mean Freeman has looked bad too dont get me wrong but it cant be all him. Weve seen him do well before. Theres gotta be a reason why its not consistent.

[chace1986]

I just hope they make sure hes the guy or isnt the guy. This franchise has seen good players leave only because they sucked here. Lets make sure here. I mean it may not be all his fault. Sounds like the recievers arent getting open. Everybody knows about the playcalls. I mean Freeman has looked bad too dont get me wrong but it cant be all him. Weve seen him do well before. Theres gotta be a reason why its not consistent.

I think that trying to turn him into a conventional pocket QB has ruined him. His mechanics are as bad as ever. His accuracy as well.

Or something happened to Josh after the 2010 season....maybe he should look into what Cialis® can do for him.

[BucNY]

Freeman has the rest of the season unchallenged. That much we know. Let's take it easy on determining if he is a future HOFer until we at least let him progress/regress this year.

[moose40]

No one has been proven right yet. Homers are homers because they want to believe and hope for the best.  Detractors seem to be hoping a player fails and take delight in that. Kind of like an overly critical wife.  Those who say Freeman is as bad as last year ignore the fact that we scored on the opening drive in every game and he has more TD's than ints. I don't think you can make and overall case that there is no improvement from 2011. That is pessimism in the highest. Easy to call a bust, as most 1st round QB's are. The beauty for you is when you are proven wrong (and you will be) nobody will care. We'll just celebrate the Bucs'/Freeman's success! Detractors, on the other hand, what will they do?

 you can say I'm a detractor if you will, but I've said from day 1 that Freeman isn't the stud qb that the homers want to believe he is. It's not that I want Freeman to fail, because then the Bucs fail. I root for the Bucs and want them to be a perennial playoff team. I simply see a mediocre at best qb, and I want the Bucs to do better.
The problem I've had with Freeman is,  imo, he hasn't shown the ability to develop. The same traits are existing now, that existed day one, again, in my own opinion, he's inaccurate, doesn't look off coverage, and I truly believe coaches have to dumb down the offense to allow Freeman to be successful.
Sure, it's easy to say I'm wrong and I'm a troll, but that's far from the truth. I simply see a qb who isn't good, isn't getting better, and is holding the Bucs back.
 But it's just as easy to say homers are blind and don't want to admit that a player is a bust. Those fans will blame everyone else around Freeman for Freeman's failures. But when V Jackson and Dallas Clark are looking at Freeman and giving him the "wtf was that?" look, the focus truly has to go to Freeman.

Didn't see that. But wouldn't you agree that it takes some consistency to develop? The 2009 season had no consistency. The 2010 season saw a lot of improvisation. Then last year demonstrated that the coaching staff was in over their heads. Who, seriously, would develop under those circumstances? There is a definite need for development and the environment seems to be right for that. Sullivan and Turner have great resumes. If he has talent, I think he does, if he is coachable, I think that progress will be seen mid to late 2012. If we make the playoffs it could get real exciting, if I am right.

I agree it takes consistency, but don't you think he should have some traits of a good/great qb already (he's in year 4)? Shouldn't a qb at the nfl level be able to look off db's? That's not a scheme issue, that's a qb showing poise/craftiness isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't freezing a db with a head fake or a pump fake be something a qb should have learned in high school or college?
Again, I hope I'm wrong because his failures for the time being mean Buccaneer failures. and again, these are my own opinions, but I don't think I should be called a detractor or a non fan or a troll because I simply don't see Freeman having "it".  I see the influx of new qb's, like Stafford, Sanchez, and even Dalton, and they are leading their teams like Rivers, Manning(s), Brees etc.

I also agree, if he's coachable, he should get better.  But on the flip side, how long is long enough to see what he has? He's been here 4 years, albeit with some poor coaching, but I feel if he was "the guy" he would show more then he does now. I may be wrong, but he looks lost, and admitting to calling a run in the 4th quarter when they are down tells me he isn't sharp. If the headset went dead, call a timeout, or take the opportunity to be the man.

[Spoolios]

I think the word "elite" is overused.

[caradoc]

Freeman has the rest of the season unchallenged. That much we know. Let's take it easy on determining if he is a future HOFer until we at least let him progress/regress this year.

And apparently next season too.  Hopefully we won't be posting the same statement after next year too.

[JDouble]

It's funny to me to go back and read my own posts in this thread. I was such a Freepologists! lol

I'm glad I finally woke up and admitted reality. The guy regressed and finished the season horribly. Take it for what it is and move on now while we can still trick someone into giving a great draft pick or player! Otherwise we are in for another disappointing season and Freeman will walk with no compensation. Go with your gut Schiano! You know he is not the guy!

[JavaRay]

It's funny to me to go back and read my own posts in this thread. I was such a Freepologists! lol

I'm glad I finally woke up and admitted reality. The guy regressed and finished the season horribly. Take it for what it is and move on now while we can still trick someone into giving a great draft pick or player! Otherwise we are in for another disappointing season and Freeman will walk with no compensation. Go with your gut Schiano! You know he is not the guy!

Dude, you are really growing up.

(All of these "Elite" threads crack me up.)

[caradoc]

It's funny to me to go back and read my own posts in this thread. I was such a Freepologists! lol

I'm glad I finally woke up and admitted reality. The guy regressed and finished the season horribly. Take it for what it is and move on now while we can still trick someone into giving a great draft pick or player! Otherwise we are in for another disappointing season and Freeman will walk with no compensation. Go with your gut Schiano! You know he is not the guy!

Free had a bad year, I don't think anyone. Is saying he didn't.  But a ton of stuff around him impacted that.  Our scheme was so incredibly predictable, that factors in hugely as defenders can bait throws and break on a ball they know is coming for example kills your stats.  Seeing someone break on a ball as you are pulling the trigger can also make you throw it off target, we see that often with QBs protecting the ball.  When receivers are just flat out not open on a passing play and the pocket has a shorter lifespan than a mayfly what do you do? 

That the point right there.  What do you do when all this is happening?  Your coach is supposed to teach you.  When he wasn't dealing with all that he was fine, very good actually.  But when things went south he didn't know how to adapt.  And youg QBs aren't supposed to know how to adapt, they are supposed to be TAUGHT how to adapt.  You don't expect them to figure it out on their own.  And given how apparently every single player on the team failed to correct even the most basic errors I find it far more likely that the coaching wasn't there rather than the coaching being there but josh failing to get it.

And regarding the drops, all drops are not created equal.  A drop on second and one for example is not as bad as one on third and five or first and ten.  A drop on a high powered offense like the saints where you just make up for it on the next play is different than one on a team where your team is struggling to avoid going three and out on half their plays.  And I think as a percentage of the number of pass plays our drops are probably higher in comparison to some of those teams.

Same here.  This is what the current corps of Freepologists misses.  Most of us criticizing him were making the same arguments in his defense last year that peopel try to make now.  But as the excuses were removed, the play didn't change. He's still the same guy, still does the same stupid things. 

[chace1986]

It's funny to me to go back and read my own posts in this thread. I was such a Freepologists! lol

I'm glad I finally woke up and admitted reality. The guy regressed and finished the season horribly. Take it for what it is and move on now while we can still trick someone into giving a great draft pick or player! Otherwise we are in for another disappointing season and Freeman will walk with no compensation. Go with your gut Schiano! You know he is not the guy!

Free had a bad year, I don't think anyone. Is saying he didn't.  But a ton of stuff around him impacted that.  Our scheme was so incredibly predictable, that factors in hugely as defenders can bait throws and break on a ball they know is coming for example kills your stats.  Seeing someone break on a ball as you are pulling the trigger can also make you throw it off target, we see that often with QBs protecting the ball.  When receivers are just flat out not open on a passing play and the pocket has a shorter lifespan than a mayfly what do you do? 

That the point right there.  What do you do when all this is happening?  Your coach is supposed to teach you.  When he wasn't dealing with all that he was fine, very good actually.  But when things went south he didn't know how to adapt.  And youg QBs aren't supposed to know how to adapt, they are supposed to be TAUGHT how to adapt.  You don't expect them to figure it out on their own.  And given how apparently every single player on the team failed to correct even the most basic errors I find it far more likely that the coaching wasn't there rather than the coaching being there but josh failing to get it.

And regarding the drops, all drops are not created equal.  A drop on second and one for example is not as bad as one on third and five or first and ten.  A drop on a high powered offense like the saints where you just make up for it on the next play is different than one on a team where your team is struggling to avoid going three and out on half their plays.  And I think as a percentage of the number of pass plays our drops are probably higher in comparison to some of those teams.

Same here.  This is what the current corps of Freepologists misses.  Most of us criticizing him were making the same arguments in his defense last year that peopel try to make now.  But as the excuses were removed, the play didn't change. He's still the same guy, still does the same stupid things. 

SMH...same here.

http://www.pewterreport.com/Boards/index.php/topic,1287754.msg1500864.html#msg1500864

[JDouble]

Hahaha...chace. That thread is full of laughter.

[CBWx2]

Hahaha...chace. That thread is full of laughter.

Not as much as this one is...