Freeman "ELITE" QB

[BucsBay]

The "system" is such a lame excuse. If it's just the system then why doesn't every team run the Texans system and have 4500 yards passing each year?

Because every team doesn't have Andre Johnson, the clear cut best WR in the game. And every team doesn't have Gary Kubiak, one of the few guys who can coach the zone scheme effectively. And every team doesn't have Eric Winston, possibly the best RT and definitely the best Zone RT in the league. Replace Winston and Johnson, with Trueblood and Mike Williams and what kind of numbers do you think Schaub puts up? Throw in Pat Morris and Greg Olsen instead of Gary Kubiak and do you still think Schaub is anywhere close to the same player?

[TBayXXXVII]

I'm going to be honest that I haven't watched Cassel play much, so I may have him underrated, but when I have seen him I haven't been all that impressed. Seems like a system QB, kind of like Shaub.

A lot of people said that, that Montana guy from San Fran was a system guy too... oh yeah, and that Brady fella up in NE.  I think many of those same people have them in the Top 5 all-time.

So a good follow up question to that would be who is the better QB? Montana with his four Superbowl wins? or Elway with his 2? I'd say Elway, and that switch their teams and Elway may have won even more than 4 while Montana may not have won any.

I don't disagree with you on who is better, Elway or Montana... in fact, my top 2 QB's all-time are Elway (#1) and Marino (#2).  BUT, Montana is a top 5 QB all-time... Brady isn't too far off... whether they are system QB's or not.

[ingey1968]

You failed to mention that Elway didnt win jack until T. Davis got there.

I'm going to be honest that I haven't watched Cassel play much, so I may have him underrated, but when I have seen him I haven't been all that impressed. Seems like a system QB, kind of like Shaub.

A lot of people said that, that Montana guy from San Fran was a system guy too... oh yeah, and that Brady fella up in NE.  I think many of those same people have them in the Top 5 all-time.

So a good follow up question to that would be who is the better QB? Montana with his four Superbowl wins? or Elway with his 2? I'd say Elway, and that switch their teams and Elway may have won even more than 4 while Montana may not have won any.

[BucNY]

How does having 12 out of 32 QBs ahead of you make you elite?

How does hating our players, owners, coaches etc.... make you a bucs fan?

[TBayXXXVII]

The "system" is such a lame excuse. If it's just the system then why doesn't every team run the Texans system and have 4500 yards passing each year?

Because every team doesn't have Andre Johnson, the clear cut best WR in the game. And every team doesn't have Gary Kubiak, one of the few guys who can coach the zone scheme effectively. And every team doesn't have Eric Winston, possibly the best RT and definitely the best Zone RT in the league. Replace Winston and Johnson, with Trueblood and Mike Williams and what kind of numbers do you think Schaub puts up? Throw in Pat Morris and Greg Olsen instead of Gary Kubiak and do you still think Schaub is anywhere close to the same player?

Not for nothing, but in the 10 games Andre Johnson missed, Schaub's numbers are still pretty solid.
188-282 (66.67 Comp %), 2,254 yards, 8 TD's, 7 Int's, and a 90.1 passer rating.

[BucsBay]

I don't disagree with you on who is better, Elway or Montana... in fact, my top 2 QB's all-time are Elway (#1) and Marino (#2).  BUT, Montana is a top 5 QB all-time... Brady isn't too far off... whether they are system QB's or not.

All QB's are going to better fits in some offense. Montana and Brady would have been good-great players wherever they ended up. In Montana's case one need look no farther than what he did in Kansas City at the end of his career.

When I say Schaub and Cassel are system QB's I guess what I really mean is I see them as middle of the road QB's made to look very good in Shaub's case and pretty good in Cassels case by the scheme they are in and how well they know it. That's not a horrible thing. I would say we won a Superbowl with that kind of QB in Brad Johnson.

I do think we all place too much emphasis on stats when evaluating a player, and on Wins - Superbowls when evaluating a QB. The system and quality of the team around a player have a huge effect on those things.

[jerseybucsfan]

If it's said that the 2002 Bucs won with defense, why isn't the same said about the last Giants Super Bowl winner? People remember the highlight reel catch, but if they don't shut down Brady they don't even sniff that win. Nobody ever said Brad was elite. Nobody ever said Dilfer was elite when the Ravens won. Eli may be better than one, is definitely better than the latter, but to say he's elite just because he won three years ago seems a reach.

[JavaRay]

Maybe he is elite.   Just in a different way than some thought.

[BucsBay]

Maybe he is elite.   Just in a different way than some thought.

Hopefully you're using those, and you're only spawning new message board accounts. .

[JDouble]

Eli sucks. he won a SB with a great defense and great running game. He averages 25 TDs and 17 Ints a year. His QB rating has been over 90 once in his 7 year career. He says publicly that he is as good as Tom Brady.....the guy is a nub. I put him in the middle category in my QB ranking, but he is at the very bottom of that category. Possible top of the next lower category with Jay Cutler, kyle Orton, Mark Sanchez, and Matt Cassell among others. Nothing special there.

[lazoran]

Eli is pretty horrible

[JavaRay]

Interesting. These were my rankings. I'm sure someone will get on me for ranking Vick so low, but he's just too inconsistent IMO. He'll look great some games, and just not get it done in others.


1. 1.Aaron Rodgers
2. 2.B. Roethlisberger
3. 3.Drew Brees
4. 4.Tom Brady
5. 5.Philip Rivers
6. 6.Peyton Manning
7. 7.Josh Freeman
8. 8.Sam Bradford
9. 9.Matt Ryan
10. 10.Joe Flacco
11. 11.Jay Cutler
12. 12.Matt Schaub
13. 13.Michael Vick
14. 14.Matthew Stafford
15. 15.Tony Romo
16. 16.Eli Manning
17. 17.Kevin Kolb
18. 18.Colt McCoy
19. 19.Mark Sanchez
20. 20.Matt Cassel
21. 21.Kyle Orton
22. 22.Ryan Fitzpatrick
23. 23.Matt Hasselbeck
24. 24.Donovan McNabb
25. 25.Chad Henne
26. 26.Jason Campbell
27. 27.David Garrard
28. 28.Alex Smith
29. 29.John Beck
30. 30.Tarvaris Jackson

You have Alex Smith at 28?    Sorry, but he just proved who the better QB was on Sunday.    Either move him up or put Freeman at 29.   

[GrimmReaper]

1. 1.Aaron Rodgers
2. 2.B. Roethlisberger
3. 3.Drew Brees
4. 4.Tom Brady
5. 5.Philip Rivers
6. 6.Peyton Manning


Put them in any order you want. Those are the only six elite QB's in the NFL right now. No sense arguing about Freeman, Cassell, and Shaub. They aren't on the list.

[JavaRay]

I don't agree that Big Ben is elite.   I've never liked him.

[GrimmReaper]

I don't agree that Big Ben is elite.   I've never liked him.

He has two superbowl rings that say he's elite. I know you hate him because he reminds you of Freeman, but you have to give him credit.