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chace1986

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#315 : February 07, 2013, 05:32:56 PM

Each offense runs differently and there are several "experts" who argue that Flacco was asked to throw more difficult throws than any other QB in the league and had more attempts of 20+ yards than any other QB. Now, that being said, I certainly won't try to paint the picture as if Flacco's missed throws weren't as bad as Freeman's.
Freeman threw the third most passes that went at least 20 yards in the air.

Cool. Thanks for the info.


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RogerGoodellSucks

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#316 : February 07, 2013, 05:38:12 PM

Oh yea, and Flacco's completion percentage during his amazing playoff run was the SAME as Freeman's was during the regular season this year.

I personally don't think that individual stat means all that much when it stands alone. Each offense runs differently and there are several "experts" who argue that Flacco was asked to throw more difficult throws than any other QB in the league and had more attempts of 20+ yards than any other QB. Now, that being said, I certainly won't try to paint the picture as if Flacco's missed throws weren't as bad as Freeman's.

I am about halfway through rewatching all of Flacco's throws this season. I will say this, he is definitely not elite and has some issues with consistency. There are times that he holds onto the ball far too long, and early in the season he made several poor decisions and the DBs didn't make him pay by dropping the ball. There are definitely some WTF Freeman-type moments. Torrey Smith also helped prevent an INT or two on opportunity balls, which is something we have seen Vjax do for Freeman. On the flip side, there are some throws that Flacco makes that are absolutely brilliant. I think his deep ball is probably no better than Freeman's in terms of success rate and giving the WRs a good opportunity to go make a play, but where Flacco is miles ahead of Freeman, is on the short to intermediate throws. In almost every game that I have seen, there have been multiple throws that were just out of this world. Also, an area where Flacco is a lot better is in his escapability. I was actually quite surprised going back ad looking at that and seeing him escape. There was actually a 3rd and 15 late in the game vs. KC where he took off and got the 1st, which helped them continue the drive and run out the clock. I certainly hope Freeman brings that portion back to his game. When looking at QBs, I feel that stats are situation and a QB might not be racking up tons of yards or points if the dictation of the game isn't forcing them to. Back to the deep ball. One thing that helps Flacco on deep sideline throws is his ability to get a HUGE arch on the ball. Sometimes its too much and he undershoots his guys, but others, it allows his WRs to make a good play on the ball at its highest point. There also seemed to be a lot of PIs called against the defenders when Flacco was targeting them. This could just be a coincidence or it could be Flacco forcing a PI out of the defender with a good throw. Im not to sure. So is he elite and did the Ravens solely win because of Flacco?..of course not...is he just as inconsistent as Freeman in areas? Absolutely...but Flacco does IMO, have a better arm and this post season run might just be the beginning of him turning into a consistent week in - week out playmaking QB.

One other thing, Dennis Pitta is a beast, and was WIDE open a lot this season. He helped out Flacco exponentially.

So in conclusion, Flacco is a better QB at this point, but not by a ton. Can Freeman get to his level and win a Super Bowl? Even an inconsistent QB can get hot and anything can happen, I suppose.

Good analysis and I really don't think I disagree with anything you said.


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#317 : February 07, 2013, 06:05:56 PM

Flacco had a 1 great playoff stretch. But, its crazy to think how everybody somehow forgets how bad was prior till this year. He still has ways to go in terms of greatness - mr far from consistent. Flacco was straight up garbage 3 years in a row in the playoffs and then year 5 he is godsend. What a joke.

Exactly. It's laughable. Flacco is horribly inconsistent. There isn't a single thing that Flacco has that Freeman doesn't, except for enough talent around him to carry him to the playoffs 5 seasons in a row despite his up and down play.

Flacco has had 12 career games where he's failed to complete at least 50% of his passes. The Ravens are 6-6 in those games. Freeman has had 8 such games. The Bucs are 1-7 in them. Flacco has had 49 games where he has thrown 0-1 TD passes. The Ravens are 31-18 (.633) in those games. Freeman has had 34 such games. The Bucs are 10-24 (.417) in those games. You want to know what the difference has been? The caliber of the other 21 players that line up with them each week, and the caliber of the coaches calling the shots on the sidelines.

The bottom line is that if Flacco were a Buccaneer and Freeman a Raven, the title of this thread would be Flacco "ELITE" QB and you all would be telling us how much better Freeman was than him.

Flacco's performance over his career has been noting more than adequate with possible exception of this year's playoffs.  He has played on a really good team though.  Nice post CBW.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

ehinote

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#318 : February 08, 2013, 01:52:23 PM

Flacco had a 1 great playoff stretch. But, its crazy to think how everybody somehow forgets how bad was prior till this year. He still has ways to go in terms of greatness - mr far from consistent. Flacco was straight up garbage 3 years in a row in the playoffs and then year 5 he is godsend. What a joke.

Exactly. It's laughable. Flacco is horribly inconsistent. There isn't a single thing that Flacco has that Freeman doesn't, except for enough talent around him to carry him to the playoffs 5 seasons in a row despite his up and down play.

Flacco has had 12 career games where he's failed to complete at least 50% of his passes. The Ravens are 6-6 in those games. Freeman has had 8 such games. The Bucs are 1-7 in them. Flacco has had 49 games where he has thrown 0-1 TD passes. The Ravens are 31-18 (.633) in those games. Freeman has had 34 such games. The Bucs are 10-24 (.417) in those games. You want to know what the difference has been? The caliber of the other 21 players that line up with them each week, and the caliber of the coaches calling the shots on the sidelines.

The bottom line is that if Flacco were a Buccaneer and Freeman a Raven, the title of this thread would be Flacco "ELITE" QB and you all would be telling us how much better Freeman was than him.

Flacco's performance over his career has been noting more than adequate with possible exception of this year's playoffs.  He has played on a really good team though.  Nice post CBW.

CBW2 - very nice collection of stats.  Thanks for putting that together. 

Bottom line, Freeman's QB rating over the last 7 games of the season was 68.1.  That's almost half the season.  And it was even that high because of his late game play.  He played a great final 5 minutes and OT in game 10 against the Panthers, but we were behind because he was playing like a backup college QB before that.  Same with the Broncos game (he was nonexistent in the 2nd and 3rd quarters) where he threw 2 late TDs after the game was already decided.  And the Eagles game where he had one of the worst halfs of any QB in the NFL in the first half.  And that led into nightmarish games against the Saints and the Rams.  And then he finished up a below average game against the Falcons. 

68.1 QB rating for 7 games!!!  I don't care how good the first half of your season was... you can't play that poorly in the final half of the NFL and expect to lead your team to anything.

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#319 : February 08, 2013, 02:20:04 PM

Dennis Pitta....he was #17 on my favorite 50. Guess not all my picks are busts.

bwhahahah! Law of averages dude. You pick 50 out 200-250 players you bound to have a couple show up. No different than Java clowning on Bucs players....hes bound to be right at some point because he dogs so many. Good job man! You have proven yourself right by choosing about 1/4 of the players in the drafts and hitting on a couple.



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You were simply too smart for me.

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#320 : February 08, 2013, 02:30:32 PM

Hey Tat, I do my thing for me and some other posters enjoy it too. If you don't, you are more than welcome to go **CENSORED** yourself. At least I add something to these boards. All you ever do is attempt to tear down other posters. You add nothing to these boards. Get a life.


Feel Real Good

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#321 : February 08, 2013, 03:57:27 PM

Flacco in the same category as Jackson5?  Gawd. Makes me cringe reading stupid on that level.
Start cringing.

If the Ravens had Freeman, they might be yearly contenders for the Lombardi.  Flacco, for some reason to me, doesn'tmake me think "great QB".  Thus the ranking, despite his resume.
Is anyone going to answer for this?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

chace1986

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#322 : February 08, 2013, 04:12:12 PM

Flacco in the same category as Jackson5?  Gawd. Makes me cringe reading stupid on that level.
Start cringing.

If the Ravens had Freeman, they might be yearly contenders for the Lombardi.  Flacco, for some reason to me, doesn'tmake me think "great QB".  Thus the ranking, despite his resume.
Is anyone going to answer for this?

Need some attention?

All I'll say in slight defense of Boid, is that 2 full seasons of football have been played since that post was generated.


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jerseybucsfan

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#323 : February 08, 2013, 04:15:43 PM

In 2010 and 2011, Flacco had three playoff games of four where his QB rating was 95 or higher. He has had only two home playoff games so he has succeeded in tough places against tough teams. He has nine playoff wins. To compare him to Josh is a joke.

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BucBalla85

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#324 : February 08, 2013, 04:19:56 PM

In 2010 and 2011, Flacco had three playoff games of four where his QB rating was 95 or higher. He has had only two home playoff games so he has succeeded in tough places against tough teams. He has nine playoff wins. To compare him to Josh is a joke.

I dont think they are a joke. In my opinion Flacco has played on much better teams than Freeman has. I think if you put Flacco on our team he would have similar stats as Freeman with likely the same record. You need solid QB play but your team needs to be good too. Would you consider any of our teams Freeman has been on to be any good? I dont. Mediocre at best but really bad at the worst. Flacco has played better recently but that doesnt mean that Freeman cant. Arent you curious how Freeman would be on a decent team??

chace1986

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#325 : February 08, 2013, 04:27:47 PM

In 2010 and 2011, Flacco had three playoff games of four where his QB rating was 95 or higher. He has had only two home playoff games so he has succeeded in tough places against tough teams. He has nine playoff wins. To compare him to Josh is a joke.

I dont think they are a joke. In my opinion Flacco has played on much better teams than Freeman has. I think if you put Flacco on our team he would have similar stats as Freeman with likely the same record. You need solid QB play but your team needs to be good too. Would you consider any of our teams Freeman has been on to be any good? I dont. Mediocre at best but really bad at the worst. Flacco has played better recently but that doesnt mean that Freeman cant. Arent you curious how Freeman would be on a decent team??

..but Flacco still is a better passer than Freeman. The problem is that sometimes he makes some of the same boneheaded mistakes and will overshoot his intended target. Neither QB is elite, but the edge still goes to Flacco. Stats don't, and never do, tell the whole story. I think if you put Flacco on the '10 team, you may have seen the Bucs in the playoffs.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

BucBalla85

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#326 : February 08, 2013, 04:34:52 PM

In 2010 and 2011, Flacco had three playoff games of four where his QB rating was 95 or higher. He has had only two home playoff games so he has succeeded in tough places against tough teams. He has nine playoff wins. To compare him to Josh is a joke.

I dont think they are a joke. In my opinion Flacco has played on much better teams than Freeman has. I think if you put Flacco on our team he would have similar stats as Freeman with likely the same record. You need solid QB play but your team needs to be good too. Would you consider any of our teams Freeman has been on to be any good? I dont. Mediocre at best but really bad at the worst. Flacco has played better recently but that doesnt mean that Freeman cant. Arent you curious how Freeman would be on a decent team??

..but Flacco still is a better passer than Freeman. The problem is that sometimes he makes some of the same boneheaded mistakes and will overshoot his intended target. Neither QB is elite, but the edge still goes to Flacco. Stats don't, and never do, tell the whole story. I think if you put Flacco on the '10 team, you may have seen the Bucs in the playoffs.

I'll give the edge to Flacco too. Ive always compared the two. I just think Freeman can be that good too. Both are not elite but need help to win games. They arent doing it by themselves. I dont know if he would have helped this team make the playoffs in 2010. I have no idea but I do think Freeman can improve his game and be as good as Flacco. He just won the SB with a solid team. If we build a solid team and Freeman gets better or more consistent I think were looking ok.

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#327 : February 09, 2013, 07:54:42 AM

You have to give flacco the favor. He's done it. As all Freeman's supporters do they are taking about what ifs. Flacco would have played better than freeman during the last seven games this season. Who knows what could have happened then.

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#328 : May 31, 2014, 06:14:48 AM

If there were a humor section of this forum, this thread would belong there.   Freeman Elite?   LOL!

Good call.

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#329 : May 31, 2014, 08:47:03 AM

How does having 12 out of 32 QBs ahead of you make you elite?
good point.  Dude you know football.

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