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CBWx2

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#30 : September 13, 2011, 08:11:06 AM

Are all Paul's supporters as misguided as you are? 

Pretty much.

The worst thing about Ron Paul after his Foreign Policy statements are his cultists.

For me, his Foreign Policy is his best thing ... but still has a little too much holy roller in him for my tastes, although he is the tallest midget in that regards in comparison to the other non-Romney candidates ...

I agree CK, although the Christian stuff isn't really a big issue for me with Paul. The issue for me is the economic stuff. I don't think Paul is a whack job at all until he gets to talking about monetary policy.
What about his monetary policy makes Ron Paul a "whack job?"

Is wanting sound money "wacky?" Is wanting the restoration of Constitutionally required money "wacky?" Is the removal of a private corporation's (The Fed) control of our money "wacky?" Is the reduction of inflation and the return of a strong economy "wacky?" Is the strengthening of our current currency "wacky?"

I can cut all this short. Rather than answering each of these things individually, I will just answer your question with a question of my own. Does Paul want to return to the gold standard? If the answer is yes (which it is), then my answer is also yes to all of the above.

Ron Paul is the most erudite among his peers regarding economics and monetary policy. The man has accurately predicted, for the last 30 years, the direction of our economy. This he has done while so called expert mainstream Keynesian Economists' predictions have fallen short every single time (to be clear, Keynesian Economists are those that have been running the Fed for decades).

Stopped reading here, because it's 100% false. The last Keynesian Fed Chief we had was Paul Volcker, and he left the Fed in 1987.


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#31 : September 13, 2011, 03:32:43 PM

Are all Paul's supporters as misguided as you are? 

Pretty much.

The worst thing about Ron Paul after his Foreign Policy statements are his cultists.

For me, his Foreign Policy is his best thing ... but still has a little too much holy roller in him for my tastes, although he is the tallest midget in that regards in comparison to the other non-Romney candidates ...

I agree CK, although the Christian stuff isn't really a big issue for me with Paul. The issue for me is the economic stuff. I don't think Paul is a whack job at all until he gets to talking about monetary policy.
What about his monetary policy makes Ron Paul a "whack job?"

Is wanting sound money "wacky?" Is wanting the restoration of Constitutionally required money "wacky?" Is the removal of a private corporation's (The Fed) control of our money "wacky?" Is the reduction of inflation and the return of a strong economy "wacky?" Is the strengthening of our current currency "wacky?"

I can cut all this short. Rather than answering each of these things individually, I will just answer your question with a question of my own. Does Paul want to return to the gold standard? If the answer is yes (which it is), then my answer is also yes to all of the above.

Ron Paul is the most erudite among his peers regarding economics and monetary policy. The man has accurately predicted, for the last 30 years, the direction of our economy. This he has done while so called expert mainstream Keynesian Economists' predictions have fallen short every single time (to be clear, Keynesian Economists are those that have been running the Fed for decades).

Stopped reading here, because it's 100% false. The last Keynesian Fed Chief we had was Paul Volcker, and he left the Fed in 1987.
LOL...then, you don't understand Keynesian Monetary Policy. And, your flippant disregard to my statement only lends credence to your misunderstanding.

Speaking of Volcker, he is the only Fed Chairman in three decades to reverse the long-held Keynesian policy of keeping interest rates low. After all, he raised the Fed Funds Rate to 20% in the early '80s. Remember the "Volcker Shock?"

Let's take a look at just a couple of main tenets of Keynesian Monetary Policy:

1. Governments should run large deficits. Since 1987, the U.S. Government has run large deficits. I don't remember having heard or read anywhere that the Fed Chairmen since 1987 has discouraged such a policy.
2. Interest rates should be kept low. Since 1987, interest rates have been kept low, and in recent years excessively low. I don't remember having heard or read anywhere that the Fed Chairmen since 1987 has discouraged such a policy.

You can go here: http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/KeynesianEconomics.html to get the full picture of Keynesian economics. Much of it is remarkably similar to what Greenspan did and what Bernanke is doing.

So, if it walks like a Keynesian, talks like a Keynesian, and acts like a Keynesian, well...you get the picture.

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#32 : September 14, 2011, 07:51:48 AM


TBbuccaneer40

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#33 : September 14, 2011, 08:13:23 AM


CBWx2

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#34 : September 14, 2011, 07:52:00 PM

LOL...then, you don't understand Keynesian Monetary Policy. And, your flippant disregard to my statement only lends credence to your misunderstanding.

Do you? Let's read on to find out...

Speaking of Volcker, he is the only Fed Chairman in three decades to reverse the long-held Keynesian policy of keeping interest rates low. After all, he raised the Fed Funds Rate to 20% in the early '80s. Remember the "Volcker Shock?"

Let's take a look at just a couple of main tenets of Keynesian Monetary Policy:

1. Governments should run large deficits. Since 1987, the U.S. Government has run large deficits. I don't remember having heard or read anywhere that the Fed Chairmen since 1987 has discouraged such a policy.

Strike one. Come on, you made that up, didn't you? Show me where Keynes ever said that governments should run large deficits. What Keynes suggested is that it is okay, and at times necessary for governments to run deficits during times of recession and depression. He suggested that during times of economic contraction, that simultaneous government contraction is detrimental. Basically, paygo policies at times of economic contraction only serves to exacerbate the problem.

2. Interest rates should be kept low. Since 1987, interest rates have been kept low, and in recent years excessively low. I don't remember having heard or read anywhere that the Fed Chairmen since 1987 has discouraged such a policy.

Strike two. Keynes never argued that interest rates should be kept low. In fact, Keynes believed that lower interest rates were of far lesser importance to investment as a low unemployment rate. Keynes believed that the purpose of investing was to increase future earnings, therefor making it cheaper to invest is of far lesser importance than making the future economic outlook more appealing by stabilizing the market via fiscal policy. The use of interest rates to spur investment is a supply side belief, commonly held among monetarists (like Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke), not Keynesian's.

In fact, the aforementioned "Volcker shock" was a prime example of Keynes theory regarding interest rates. Volcker shot up rates in order to combat inflation, and it did not cripple investment.

You can go here: http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/KeynesianEconomics.html to get the full picture of Keynesian economics. Much of it is remarkably similar to what Greenspan did and what Bernanke is doing.

You should probably re-read that. Neither of the examples you laid out as the "main tenets of Keynesianism" is even discussed in it.
: September 14, 2011, 08:02:43 PM CBWx2


dalbuc

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#35 : September 14, 2011, 09:18:59 PM


Strike one. Come on, you made that up, didn't you? Show me where Keynes ever said that governments should run large deficits. What Keynes suggested is that it is okay, and at times necessary for governments to run deficits during times of recession and depression. He suggested that during times of economic contraction, that simultaneous government contraction is detrimental. Basically, paygo policies at times of economic contraction only serves to exacerbate the problem.


...and really for Keynes governments might run a deficit but they should not be in debt. The reason being that when times are good they run surpluses that cover the decreased revenues and expansionist spending during downcycles. Keynes was/is wrong about how government can even out the business cycles but he wasn't a man who wanted mountains of debt

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
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