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dalbuc

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#30 : September 16, 2011, 10:16:33 AM

The issue with fans isn't just economic in nature, it's a lot more than that.

1) The coaches haven't convinced fans they know what they are doing
2) The players haven't convinced fans that they care about winning
3) The owners haven't convinced fans that they care about the team
4) There is a complete lack of Public Relations going on to spur interest
5) Stadium concessions seem to be overpriced and service a joke (according to some reports from fans)
6) Lack of prime time games (which will be rectified this year)
7) The variety of ways to watch the game from the comfort of your AC home and not at a swelteringly hot stadium

This leads a lot of folks to not only check what they do with their dollar but actively want to do something different.

Put a product on the field that actually looks good, market it properly and win games will get fans to come along.

1. 10-6 says they know how to win
2. Not caring is the last thing you can say about this lot. Good, bad or indifferent.....they all play hard all the time. You don't get those crazy comebacks without it.
3. This one I get just from the payroll standpoint but I still say who one this team would you want to pay from 2002-20010? Now we are paying guys and I think we shouldn't be paying them to be honest.
4. PR, no offense but I've lived in cities where I've never seen ads (DC) for the football team. I don't think I've seen one in Dallas this year. It isn't like people are unaware of the product the Bucs are selling.
5. Prices are high but that is true of all stadiums. It isn't unique to Tampa.
6. Oddly prime time games cuts vs your #7 point which is other ways to watch since those offer the same if not more options to view away from the game.
7. Again, this isn't unique to Tampa, ALL franchises face this same issue.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

BucsFTW

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#31 : September 16, 2011, 10:16:38 AM

How many years is it ok for them to use the excuse of being the youngest team in the league?    If that excuse is ok, all they have to do is never sign any free agents, keep all 1st and 2nd year players, and get rid of guys like Ruud and Caddy when they start to age a bit.
Typical Java...  It makes it near-impossible to have lucid football conversation with you when you continuously skew facts for nothing more than your "I hate Raheem" agenda.

The antithesis to this is:  When the team was "patch-worked together" with veterans beyond their prime, of course we'll be "the youngest team in the league".  It is a direct result to Gruden/Allen's repeatedly failed attempts to re-tool with the veterans that for the most part SUCKED after 2002.  It's common sense.

As far as Ruud and Caddy...  One was past his prime, and the other was a linebacker that stunk at playing the run.  To counter that with "but, Ruud led the team in tackles" is foolish without considering how many tackles were after huge gains.  The ONLY valid arguement is... IF we had stud D-linemen, Ruud wouldn't have HAD to make as many tackles as he did.  Our lack of performance on the D-line is also a direct reflection of Gru/Allen's ability to evaluate talent.


The fact is, the Bucs didn't even want to compete this year.    I don't find that acceptable.
It's YOUR OPINION that "the Bucs didn't even want to compete this year", and hardly factual.  Nothing new here though.

Referring to your opinions as "factual" takes away from any validity you may have had within any given point you attempt to make.


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#32 : September 16, 2011, 10:25:18 AM

Bucs will be using the TT model, so the Bucs will more than likely be one of the youngest teams again next year.  I believe 10 rookies made the Packers squad this year, so expect that trend to continue with the Bucs.  The difference is Dominik's biggest signing was Ward and that was a dud compared to TT's Charles Woodson to excite the fanbase.

Being one of the youngest teams in the league will probably be inevitable next season as well, but to say "Ward was Dominik's biggest signing" is ridiciulous.

In the same breath, let me agree with you that NOT signing a proven veteran, for the holes we obviously have currently, will do little to excite the existing fanbase, and absolutely nothing to lure old fans back or attract new fans as well.


BucsFTW

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#33 : September 16, 2011, 10:32:33 AM

Ahhhh, yet another "casual fan"...  There will be NO USE of logic here!

The issue with fans isn't just economic in nature, it's a lot more than that.

1) The coaches haven't convinced fans they know what they are doing
2) The players haven't convinced fans that they care about winning
3) The owners haven't convinced fans that they care about the team
4) There is a complete lack of Public Relations going on to spur interest
5) Stadium concessions seem to be overpriced and service a joke (according to some reports from fans)
6) Lack of prime time games (which will be rectified this year)
7) The variety of ways to watch the game from the comfort of your AC home and not at a swelteringly hot stadium

This leads a lot of folks to not only check what they do with their dollar but actively want to do something different.

Put a product on the field that actually looks good, market it properly and win games will get fans to come along.

I'm not in agreement with point #2, but the remainder is spot-on.  It's the exact same reason that a market as HUGE as L.A. has had attendance issues in the past as well.

Too many things to compete with to NOT put a winner on the field, and still expect sell-outs.


Benchwarmer#1

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#34 : September 16, 2011, 10:34:18 AM

So you guys saying it's the economy are right? .....35$ a ticket adult, 17$ for kids.

What about the winning? ..Won't that bring back fans?? ....10-6 and still can't sell out one freakin' game.

...Oh, but if we have "stars?" ....Freeman is nearly a household name all over the country. Most fans from other teams are seriously impressed by him.

No, no.. I got it... It's the fans. They must hate the team because of a black HC, right? ... According to African-American.com, Tampa consists of 26% (or more) African Americans.

It's because they're young maybe?? .... Two seasons ago, the Packers were the youngest team in the NFL, and they had no trouble selling out their stadium back then (even when the defense was giving up plays).


Honestly, we can search for problems all over and not get anywhere. It's not like winning, having a white HC, or having cheaper tickets will get fans back. Even "identifiable players" like an Alstott or Hillis type player won't make a difference now (Like I've heard many times before).

The fans (and the people of Tampa) despise the ownership of this team. They have lied too many times, choked our economy to death, invested in other teams, and yet continuously remained on the cheap while blaming the fans. ...Then sue them for non payment, and any bars who play their blacked out games. All the while, gladly collecting people's tax monies.

Tampa will NEVER fill that stadium up again until the Glazers are gone.



I remind you, it's not just my personal thoughts on the matter. It's the general thoughts of everyone I talk to inside and outside the TB area.
: September 16, 2011, 10:38:02 AM Benchwarmer#1

RHBucsFan

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#35 : September 16, 2011, 10:34:52 AM

I'm trying to find a pair of tickets to the Falcons game next weekend and am having trouble finding anything under $40/ea in a stadium that will end up being half empty. This is completely assinine. Why they have no interest in marketing their product and making it accessible to those interested is beyond me.

Less than $40 a ticket?? What are you F'ing kidding me with that **CENSORED**? Is there something wrong with you mentally?

Tell me this, how much do they charge for tickets in the same stadium to a USF game? Wow, it's professional sports. The players are paid millions. The stadium worth hundreds of millions. Reality check brother....

This is what is wrong with the Tampa Bay fan base. People like you. Check the Falcons website, see what their tickets are going for, keep in mind RJS is one of the nicest stadiums in the league with the best facilities.

Economics 101 - supply and demand. The demand obviously isn't there.

What is wrong with me mentally? Nice personal attack. Perhaps you can add name-calling in your next post.

Last weekend's USF game vs Ball State had plenty of tickets for $6.20 a piece in that same stadium. This weekend's game v FAMU has plenty of $10 tickets.

How am I what's wrong with the fanbase? I would prefer to watch EVERY game at home on my couch on my new big screen plasma; personal preference. I could care less if you think I'm not a "true fan" or not. Since home games are blacked out, I'd rather try to attend than watch a crappy internet feed.

I think $40 a ticket is too high for the cheapest seats when the stadium is half empty. Apparently all of the people painted as empty seats would agree.

jerseybucsfan

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#36 : September 16, 2011, 10:36:27 AM

No, you misread my post, dipstick. I alluded to the Sixers' decrease while the other teams increased.
You have no concrete data because you were too lazy to look it up. Apparently you weren't too lazy to rip me or act like a tough guy, but when it comes to validating your point, you're a bugwit.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/current_attendance.shtml
There's your decrease of over 600,000 in Dodgers attendance. That's on tickets SOLD. Actual attendance numbers are among the worst in Dodger Stadium history.

First you had this....http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dodgers/2011/06/dodger-stadium-attendance.html
Then this ...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/831501-los-angeles-dodgers-attendance-at-dodger-games-reaches-rock-bottom-or-has-it




Now look at the Mets.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/attend.shtml
They had almost a 1.5 million person dip in two years and will finish with over a 1.6 person dip in three years. That's a 40 percent drop. Each is in a major market.
So the dips aren't just limited to transient populations. Warm weather has shown to never have any impact on Dodgers attendance.
What do the Dodgers and Mets have in common with the Bucs? Really bad PR for the ownership.

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#37 : September 16, 2011, 10:40:41 AM

The issue with fans isn't just economic in nature, it's a lot more than that.

1) The coaches haven't convinced fans they know what they are doing
2) The players haven't convinced fans that they care about winning
3) The owners haven't convinced fans that they care about the team
4) There is a complete lack of Public Relations going on to spur interest
5) Stadium concessions seem to be overpriced and service a joke (according to some reports from fans)
6) Lack of prime time games (which will be rectified this year)
7) The variety of ways to watch the game from the comfort of your AC home and not at a swelteringly hot stadium

This leads a lot of folks to not only check what they do with their dollar but actively want to do something different.

Put a product on the field that actually looks good, market it properly and win games will get fans to come along.

1. 10-6 says they know how to win
2. Not caring is the last thing you can say about this lot. Good, bad or indifferent.....they all play hard all the time. You don't get those crazy comebacks without it.
3. This one I get just from the payroll standpoint but I still say who one this team would you want to pay from 2002-20010? Now we are paying guys and I think we shouldn't be paying them to be honest.
4. PR, no offense but I've lived in cities where I've never seen ads (DC) for the football team. I don't think I've seen one in Dallas this year. It isn't like people are unaware of the product the Bucs are selling.
5. Prices are high but that is true of all stadiums. It isn't unique to Tampa.
6. Oddly prime time games cuts vs your #7 point which is other ways to watch since those offer the same if not more options to view away from the game.
7. Again, this isn't unique to Tampa, ALL franchises face this same issue.

While I accept what you say Dal, the problem is that for a lot of people even with what you have pointed out they are still very much unconvinced. Actually a late prime time game would help attendance at the stadium as it will be cooler, well one can hope ;)

BucsFTW

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#38 : September 16, 2011, 10:42:12 AM

So you guys saying it's the economy are right? .....35$ a ticket adult, 17$ for kids.

What about the winning? ..Won't that bring back fans?? ....10-6 and still can't sell out one freakin' game.

...Oh, but if we have "stars?" ....Freeman is nearly a household name all over the country. Most fans from other teams are seriously impressed by him.

No, no.. I got it... It's the fans. They must hate the team because of a black HC, right? ... According to African-American.com, Tampa consists of 26% (or more) African Americans.

It's because they're young maybe?? .... Two seasons ago, the Packers were the youngest team in the NFL, and they had no trouble selling out their stadium back then (even when the defense was giving up plays).


Honestly, we can search for problems all over and not get anywhere. It's not like winning, having a white HC, or having cheaper tickets will get fans back. Even "identifiable players" like an Alstott or Hillis type player won't make a difference now (Like I've heard many times before).

The fans (and the people of Tampa) despise the ownership of this team. They have lied too many times, choked our economy to death, invested in other teams, and yet continuously remained on the cheap while blaming the fans. ...Then sue them for non payment, and any bars who play their blacked out games. All the while, gladly collecting people's tax monies.

Tampa will NEVER fill that stadium up again until the Glazers are gone.



I remind you, it's not just my personal thoughts on the matter. It's the general thoughts of everyone I talk to inside and outside the TB area.

While many of your points are undeniable...

I doubt very seriously if the color of our coach would matter to even the most racist fans, IF we had WINNER we marched out every Sunday...

"Nothing removes the stink of losing like a winner".


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#39 : September 16, 2011, 10:46:27 AM

Quote
Ticket sales hovered above 500,000 through most of the decade, but dropped precipitously in the last two years.

I'm not sure, someone may need to remind me, but wasn't there some sort of huge economic event that started about two years ago?

Not saying the Bucs would be selling out if the economy was better, but to ignore the recession when analyzing something like this is like ignoring an approaching hurricane when analyzing bottled water sales.

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#40 : September 16, 2011, 10:50:29 AM

maybe this will get the glazers to sell the team

on that note the whole last decade and from the looks of the start of this one we always had a poor offense. watching a team get 190yds per game is BORING

Madman

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#41 : September 16, 2011, 10:54:05 AM

Glazers have done a fine job of alienating the fan base in recent years.

It all started when their attention and money turned to Man U. They were great owners before that. Now, not so much.

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#42 : September 16, 2011, 10:57:09 AM

Naive and ignorant...?  I couldn't simply just be wrong without your insulting, juvenile name-calling Joe?  Think about it...

Ignorant is not name calling. I'm ignorant about a lot of things.

Naive?

Please don't be so naive as to say.... "But we were 10-6 last year!"

dalbuc

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#43 : September 16, 2011, 11:06:10 AM

Quote
Ticket sales hovered above 500,000 through most of the decade, but dropped precipitously in the last two years.

I'm not sure, someone may need to remind me, but wasn't there some sort of huge economic event that started about two years ago?

Not saying the Bucs would be selling out if the economy was better, but to ignore the recession when analyzing something like this is like ignoring an approaching hurricane when analyzing bottled water sales.

The losses here are relative, every team in all sports faced the same economic problems so you can't claim the Bucs are unique in that sense.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

SWAGGARRR

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#44 : September 16, 2011, 11:09:02 AM

I'm trying to find a pair of tickets to the Falcons game next weekend and am having trouble finding anything under $40/ea in a stadium that will end up being half empty. This is completely assinine. Why they have no interest in marketing their product and making it accessible to those interested is beyond me.

Less than $40 a ticket?? What are you F'ing kidding me with that **CENSORED**? Is there something wrong with you mentally?

Tell me this, how much do they charge for tickets in the same stadium to a USF game? Wow, it's professional sports. The players are paid millions. The stadium worth hundreds of millions. Reality check brother....

This is what is wrong with the Tampa Bay fan base. People like you. Check the Falcons website, see what their tickets are going for, keep in mind RJS is one of the nicest stadiums in the league with the best facilities.
Baseball players are paid millions too... Hell, their salaries ARE completely guaranteed... Also, who's money paid for RJS? Glazers? Oh yea that's right, it was the citizens of Florida... So your argument is now null and void...

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