Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Fans take on Mario Williams « previous next »
Page: 1 2 3

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31581
Online
#30 : October 18, 2011, 12:19:29 PM

Mario Williams was producing like a mad man in Wade Phillips' scheme before the injury. I believe he had 5 sacks in 5 games.

He is a key cog in  Phillips' scheme as a DeMarcus Ware or a Bruce Smith.

No way the Texans let him walk.

I bet they tag him.

Agreed.  Don't know why the OP suggested otherwise.

The OP never suggested otherwise. What was suggested is the need for a dominant DE-OLB pass rusher isnt as important in their current 3-4 rather than in say a 4-3 that relies on just 4 men getting after the QB about 70% of the time rather than a 3-4 which brings 5 guys about 50% of the time.

This just flat out isn't true.  Look at what Demarcus Ware did in Dallas playing for Phillips' same scheme.


JDouble

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 29156
Offline
#31 : October 18, 2011, 12:24:36 PM

The question isn't whether or not Mario can be great in Wade's 3-4. The question is does Mario really want to be a 6'6" 300lbs linebacker? or does he want to go elsewhere and be a DE in a 4-3?

Either way I think they put a tag on him, but I can see him wanting to leave.


chace1986

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 13372
Offline
#32 : October 18, 2011, 12:33:49 PM

The question isn't whether or not Mario can be great in Wade's 3-4. The question is does Mario really want to be a 6'6" 300lbs linebacker? or does he want to go elsewhere and be a DE in a 4-3?

Either way I think they put a tag on him, but I can see him wanting to leave.

Which is exactly what the hot topic regarding Williams in Houston...Williams has(supposedly) expressed his dislike of being the OLB rather than just the DE....and that is why this post got started. Will they tag him...probably...this thread was a "if they let him walk" scenario.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

chace1986

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 13372
Offline
#33 : October 18, 2011, 12:41:00 PM

Mario Williams was producing like a mad man in Wade Phillips' scheme before the injury. I believe he had 5 sacks in 5 games.

He is a key cog in  Phillips' scheme as a DeMarcus Ware or a Bruce Smith.

No way the Texans let him walk.

I bet they tag him.

Agreed.  Don't know why the OP suggested otherwise.

The OP never suggested otherwise. What was suggested is the need for a dominant DE-OLB pass rusher isnt as important in their current 3-4 rather than in say a 4-3 that relies on just 4 men getting after the QB about 70% of the time rather than a 3-4 which brings 5 guys about 50% of the time.

This just flat out isn't true.  Look at what Demarcus Ware did in Dallas playing for Phillips' same scheme.

Demarcus Ware and Mario Williams aren't the same. Demarcus Ware has been a 3-4 guy since his days at Troy. Brooks Reed may actually step in as be just as effective as Mario Williams....and being in Texas I watched 4 of the 5 games Mario Williams played in....I would say 2-3 of his sacks came when 5 rushers were sent and in the 3 games vs. Miami Oakland and New Orleans has had a combined total of 5 tackles and 1 sack....he was completely held in check against the Saints. Demarcus Ware has almost never disappeared from a game...and Im not just talking about from the stat sheet here...Williams was more disruptive in the 4-3. It's a fact.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31581
Online
#34 : October 18, 2011, 01:34:01 PM

Demarcus Ware and Mario Williams aren't the same. Demarcus Ware has been a 3-4 guy since his days at Troy.

Williams has missed 1+ games and Ware is the only 3-4 OLB with more sacks and QBP's the Williams.  They aren't as different as you think as pass rushers.


.I would say 2-3 of his sacks came when 5 rushers were sent

I would say 42.37% of statistics are made up on the spot.



he was completely held in check against the Saints.

Williams had 4 QBP's vs. the Saints


Demarcus Ware has almost never disappeared from a game...and Im not just talking about from the stat sheet here

Sure he has. 



Williams was more disruptive in the 4-3. It's a fact.

Let's take a gander at this "fact."

2010, through 4 games (255 snaps):  6 sacks, 10 QBP, 10 tackles, 2 passes defended, and 1 forced fumble
2011, through 4+ games (225 snaps):  5 sacks 17 QBP, 11 tackles, 1 pass defended, and 1 forced fumble  (first year in a new defense)


That fact all of the sudden looks like an opinion - and not a good one.


chace1986

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 13372
Offline
#35 : October 18, 2011, 02:38:09 PM

Demarcus Ware and Mario Williams aren't the same. Demarcus Ware has been a 3-4 guy since his days at Troy.

Williams has missed 1+ games and Ware is the only 3-4 OLB with more sacks and QBP's the Williams.  They aren't as different as you think as pass rushers.

Matter of opinion....the fact is they both are top 5 pass rushers...Ware is the best 3-4 pass rusher and Williams is arguably the 4-3. You could probably put Ware in a 4-3 though and he would still dominate...and be just as successful Williams has in the translation.


.I would say 2-3 of his sacks came when 5 rushers were sent

I would say 42.37% of statistics are made up on the spot.

That leaves me with 57.63%...lol....this wasn't from me searching for online stats....it was simply from my memory of watching their games..



he was completely held in check against the Saints.

Williams had 4 QBP's vs. the Saints

Had plenty of missed tackles in that game and didnt dominate the line of scrimmage...sometimes getting anything but the sack on Brees isnt good enough...he proved that by beating a confident Texans at that time a few weeks ago.


Demarcus Ware has almost never disappeared from a game...and Im not just talking about from the stat sheet here

Sure he has. 

Once again...matter of opinion....I happen to think I can judge this pretty well cause the only local games on here are of the Cowboys...but I dont know your life and you may watch all their games as well...so I'll leave it at that.
Williams was more disruptive in the 4-3. It's a fact.

Let's take a gander at this "fact."

2010, through 4 games (255 snaps):  6 sacks, 10 QBP, 10 tackles, 2 passes defended, and 1 forced fumble
2011, through 4+ games (225 snaps):  5 sacks 17 QBP, 11 tackles, 1 pass defended, and 1 forced fumble  (first year in a new defense)


That fact all of the sudden looks like an opinion - and not a good one.

Lol..Five words.....Gerald McCoy and Brian Price. I said the word "disruption"....a good percentage of the time disruption doesnt show up on the stat sheet as sack or even QBP. Just for arguments sake we will ignore the word that I shouldn't have used...which was "fact". I never said he had better numbers in a 4-3. You are correct...it is opinion based because disruption is nearly impossible to pull up on a stat sheet...it comes from WATCHING the games.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31581
Online
#36 : October 18, 2011, 02:57:50 PM

You could probably put Ware in a 4-3 though and he would still dominate...and be just as successful Williams has in the translation.

I agree 100%.  They are very similar.



Had plenty of missed tackles in that game and didnt dominate the line of scrimmage...sometimes getting anything but the sack on Brees isnt good enough...he proved that by beating a confident Texans at that time a few weeks ago.

Clayborn and Bennett are going to be sorry to hear that.  They didn't sack Brees, but they record 5 QBP and 4 QBP respectively on Brees, forcing early throws and interceptions as well.  QBP can impact the play just as much, and sometimes moreso, than sacks.



Lol..Five words.....Gerald McCoy and Brian Price. I said the word "disruption"....a good percentage of the time disruption doesnt show up on the stat sheet as sack or even QBP. Just for arguments sake we will ignore the word that I shouldn't have used...which was "fact". I never said he had better numbers in a 4-3. You are correct...it is opinion based because disruption is nearly impossible to pull up on a stat sheet...it comes from WATCHING the games.

The QBP is an excellent measure of disruption, that's why I'm such a fan of it.  McCoy has been getting disruption (and QBP's as a result) at a very high rate this season.  Price - not so much.  We've seen a splash play here and there, but he needs to work on consistency.  He's still basically a rookie NFL DT.


chace1986

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 13372
Offline
#37 : October 18, 2011, 03:25:54 PM

You could probably put Ware in a 4-3 though and he would still dominate...and be just as successful Williams has in the translation.

I agree 100%.  They are very similar.



Had plenty of missed tackles in that game and didnt dominate the line of scrimmage...sometimes getting anything but the sack on Brees isnt good enough...he proved that by beating a confident Texans at that time a few weeks ago.

Clayborn and Bennett are going to be sorry to hear that.  They didn't sack Brees, but they record 5 QBP and 4 QBP respectively on Brees, forcing early throws and interceptions as well.  QBP can impact the play just as much, and sometimes moreso, than sacks.

Key word in the sentence is "sometimes"...I put that in there...because our pressure was enough to throw Brees off...Houston's collective pressure was not.

Lol..Five words.....Gerald McCoy and Brian Price. I said the word "disruption"....a good percentage of the time disruption doesnt show up on the stat sheet as sack or even QBP. Just for arguments sake we will ignore the word that I shouldn't have used...which was "fact". I never said he had better numbers in a 4-3. You are correct...it is opinion based because disruption is nearly impossible to pull up on a stat sheet...it comes from WATCHING the games.

The QBP is an excellent measure of disruption, that's why I'm such a fan of it.  McCoy has been getting disruption (and QBP's as a result) at a very high rate this season.  Price - not so much.  We've seen a splash play here and there, but he needs to work on consistency.  He's still basically a rookie NFL DT.

Price's disruption has heavily effected our success in defending the rush...he has been a major factor in helping to hold the Saints and Falcons to next to nothing in our two games against the division opponents this year.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31581
Online
#38 : October 18, 2011, 03:38:23 PM

Price's disruption has heavily effected our success in defending the rush...he has been a major factor in helping to hold the Saints and Falcons to next to nothing in our two games against the division opponents this year.

Disagree 100%.  I'm a fan of Price, but his play vs. the run has been pretty bad.  He's one of the few Buccaneers that hasn't played the run all that well this season.  He looks like he's in full pass-rush mode all of the time, just like Kong Suh.


chace1986

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 13372
Offline
#39 : October 18, 2011, 03:48:57 PM

Price's disruption has heavily effected our success in defending the rush...he has been a major factor in helping to hold the Saints and Falcons to next to nothing in our two games against the division opponents this year.

Disagree 100%.  I'm a fan of Price, but his play vs. the run has been pretty bad.  He's one of the few Buccaneers that hasn't played the run all that well this season.  He looks like he's in full pass-rush mode all of the time, just like Kong Suh.

I've always wondered what it was like watching a Bucs game on a gamecast on espn.com or nfl.com. Thanks for the insight...


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31581
Online
#40 : October 18, 2011, 03:57:55 PM

I've always wondered what it was like watching a Bucs game on a gamecast on espn.com or nfl.com. Thanks for the insight...

Right, and Mario Williams was "completely held in check" vs. the Saints.


bashear

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 2434
Offline
#41 : October 19, 2011, 12:47:25 AM

In simplest terms : I'd rather improve our OL and CB position first. Because we're gonna need someone to play opposite Talib next year.

We already have the guy playing beside Talib. His name is EJ Biggers. He is our shutdown cornerback. Ronde plays the role of nickel corner. I'm thinking between Mack, Gaitor, and Lewis, we will have a guy who can play nickel corner. Of course, that is if Ronde retires.
Since when has Biggers been a shutdown corner?

He has always been one. Name another CB in the entire NFL that has given up zero TD's this year.

Okay so its excusable for him to get abused between the 20's I guess.

Man, this is a tough crowd. You want a CB who gives up zero catches? Without Biggers we can't even play cover one. Here is our cover one with Ronde trying to cover Colston 1-1 with Biggers on the bench:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011101609/2011/REG6/saints@buccaneers#menu=highlights%7CcontentId%3A09000d5d8232b7d8

Biggers is a top flight CB IMO. He never gets burned like Talib, or Barber. Even when he gives up plays, he is almost always right there with the WR. That is the definition of a shutdown corner in my book.
Revis is the definition of a shutdown corner in my book, and Biggers is not close to being a shutdown corner in my book.
Page: 1 2 3
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Fans take on Mario Williams « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools