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Customer paid for groceries with food stamps, walked into parking lot and...

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spartan:

--- Quote from: CBWx2 on November 30, 2012, 04:34:45 PM ---

--- Quote from: spartan on November 30, 2012, 03:50:13 PM ---OK, so increasing the cost of producing a product is going to do one of two things. What are they?

--- End quote ---

In the general sense, raise the price of the product, or cause companies to scale back on production to maintain profit margins.

Now as to the former, it is likely an unavoidable consequence to raising the cost of production. The latter is unlikely to occur unless their is a decrease in demand.

I can already guess what the next question will be, but I wouldn't dream of denying you the pleasure of asking it.

--- End quote ---

Close but no cigar. Raise the price of the product or reduce the production costs in other areas, normally, but not always cut employees. Now read this:

http://www.franchisehelp.com/industry-reports/fast-food-industry-report

Fast Food Industry Analysis 2012 Cost & Trends

The profit margin in the fast food industry is, to quote, south of 10%. The competition is also very fierce as the article points out. Market saturation is the phrased used. Just who do you think is going to survive? Him who keeps his operational costs as low as possible, or those who increase them? And, on top of that, what happens to the employees who do not "win" the battle of market share. They go from a low paying job to a no paying job.

I sympathize with your point of view, but it denies the realities of life. This really isn't about greedy rich people or ideologies. I got laid off last month, but thank the Lord I just finished my first week in a new job. My former company is trying hard but is struggling in the current market environment. I saw this coming, but they were paying me a boat load of money so I made a choice of riding it to the end. Market forces dictated that I was expendable. I understand that and hold no grudges. I am currently earning less than with my old job, but "less" is relative because my new job probably still pays more than most people will earn at the zenith of their career.

Raising the minimum wage as you suggest is fine theoretically, and I support it, theoretically, but it ignores the real world. And to be blunt, you cannot ignore that. There are certain facts of life that you have to deal with, regardless if you like them or not.

CBWx2:

--- Quote from: spartan on November 30, 2012, 08:35:40 PM ---
--- Quote from: CBWx2 on November 30, 2012, 04:34:45 PM ---

--- Quote from: spartan on November 30, 2012, 03:50:13 PM ---OK, so increasing the cost of producing a product is going to do one of two things. What are they?

--- End quote ---

In the general sense, raise the price of the product, or cause companies to scale back on production to maintain profit margins.

Now as to the former, it is likely an unavoidable consequence to raising the cost of production. The latter is unlikely to occur unless their is a decrease in demand.

I can already guess what the next question will be, but I wouldn't dream of denying you the pleasure of asking it.

--- End quote ---

Close but no cigar. Raise the price of the product or reduce the production costs in other areas, normally, but not always cut employees.

--- End quote ---

How is that no cigar? You basically said what I said but added that the reduction in production costs might not lead to layoffs.

Also, I was waiting for the inevitable "and what does raising the price of a product do to demand" question. Everyone involved in this discussion taking the anti-increase stance has chosen to isolate price increases from other factors that affect demand. In a theoretical sense, if price is the only variable factored, then a price increase leads to a decrease in demand. However, in the real world, price is not isolated from all other factors. Consumer income, the price of related goods, and the overall desirability of the product by the consumer are all factors that can make a modest price increase completely irrelevant. This is why the theory that price increases inherently lead to a decrease in demand is not always the reality when price increases actually occur.

This is why I have asked for empirical evidence as opposed to general theories. We aren't talking about a theoretical occurrence here. We are talking about a minimum wage increase, something that has been done time and time again, and something that has had measurable effects that have been studied. So if there is evidence that suggests that all of the things that you say theoretically will occur from an increase actually have occurred on some level with past increases, then your point is proven. Should be rather simple.


--- Quote from: spartan on November 30, 2012, 08:35:40 PM ---Now read this:

http://www.franchisehelp.com/industry-reports/fast-food-industry-report

Fast Food Industry Analysis 2012 Cost & Trends

The profit margin in the fast food industry is, to quote, south of 10%. The competition is also very fierce as the article points out. Market saturation is the phrased used. Just who do you think is going to survive? Him who keeps his operational costs as low as possible, or those who increase them? And, on top of that, what happens to the employees who do not "win" the battle of market share. They go from a low paying job to a no paying job.

--- End quote ---

If the minimum wage were increased, you would see across the board rises in operating costs and across the board price manipulation to offset the increased costs. Essentially, the dynamics of the industry likely would not be changed much, if at all.


--- Quote from: spartan on November 30, 2012, 08:35:40 PM ---I sympathize with your point of view, but it denies the realities of life. This really isn't about greedy rich people or ideologies. I got laid off last month, but thank the Lord I just finished my first week in a new job. My former company is trying hard but is struggling in the current market environment. I saw this coming, but they were paying me a boat load of money so I made a choice of riding it to the end. Market forces dictated that I was expendable. I understand that and hold no grudges. I am currently earning less than with my old job, but "less" is relative because my new job probably still pays more than most people will earn at the zenith of their career.

Raising the minimum wage as you suggest is fine theoretically, and I support it, theoretically, but it ignores the real world. And to be blunt, you cannot ignore that. There are certain facts of life that you have to deal with, regardless if you like them or not.

--- End quote ---

I'm glad everything worked out for you in the end, spartan. Trust me, I'm not ignoring the real world at all. My entire position is based on the real world. The real world consequences of continuing to allow wages to remain static when prices continue to rise, and the real world effects of raising wages in the past, none of which has lead to the economic collapse suggested to occur by many conservatives on this issue.

tripblood:

Dolorous Jason:

--- Quote from: CBWx2 on November 30, 2012, 08:28:29 AM --- Permanent or not, what the hell can anyone buy or how the hell can anyone live in the US making a wage that low?



--- End quote ---

LOL. You wreak of stupidity. There's a simple answer to this , but really , why bother ?

CBWx2:

--- Quote from: Dolorous Jason on December 01, 2012, 08:04:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: CBWx2 on November 30, 2012, 08:28:29 AM --- Permanent or not, what the hell can anyone buy or how the hell can anyone live in the US making a wage that low?



--- End quote ---

There's a simple answer to this

--- End quote ---

I know. The answer is not a damn thing and they can't. And get your head out of Vinny Peanuts' butt with that black hole schtick. If you are going to be a jackass, at least be an original one.

Dolorous Jason:
It's a very fitting name for you. What's wrong , don't like it ?

VinBucFan:

--- Quote from: Dolorous Jason on December 02, 2012, 08:21:55 AM ---It's a very fitting name for you. What's wrong , don't like it ?

--- End quote ---

he doesnt like it because it hits home, describes him perfectly

Biggs3535:
The System is Broken:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/25/7k-worth-of-food-stamps-per-person-the-state-where-this-is-happening-might-surprise-you/

Mean D:
Barack Obama is the food stamp president.  Mooches, leeches and parasites think we owe them a living.

BucfanNC12:

--- Quote from: Biggs3535 on February 25, 2013, 10:42:01 AM ---The System is Broken:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/25/7k-worth-of-food-stamps-per-person-the-state-where-this-is-happening-might-surprise-you/

--- End quote ---

That is a poorly written article that doesn't say much. I was expecting to read something addressing the problem.

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