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Ladyfan

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#45 : November 02, 2011, 01:49:22 PM

Okay.  I have sold all my jewelry, antiques, and anything else of value.  The car is free and clear and runs fine.  We looked into selling it and buying something cheaper but the numbers didn't work out. I cannot sell my house but I did get a loan modification from Chase and Obama's Affordable Home Program that helps me tremendously.  In the years since 2007, I went threw my savings what with family, a few major house repairs, a stroke and loss of my left eye (medical bills over and above Medicare).

However, I can see from this thread that some are just down on helping people like me and my family.  I have worked since I was 16 and put money into the system.  Paid taxes, paid into my Medicare and all the other taxes that support our system.  Yet you say you'd only  have respect for me if I lived under a bridge with my family.  Next year I will probably be able to work once I recov er from having my eye removed.  I don't feel sorry for myself and I have found great joy in the simple things in life now that I can no longer do things I used to do like have birthday parties for friends and family, sent gifts to family for holidays etc, go out to eat ( except Mickey Ds occasionally, (love those fries) go to a movie etc etc etc.  I am a survivor and proud of it.  But imagine how other people in similar circumstances would feel if they revealed their story and had the same reactions.

BTW My tv?  I bought a converter for $30 bucks at Best Buy from a gift card someone gave me and watch all regular tv channels except channel 10 which has its station in Weeki Wachi and is too far away to get a good signal, although sometimes I can get the Orlando signal.  I'm keeping my TV, thankyouverymuch.  I did not spend $1000 on a tv.  I bought my Samsung 32" TV at Sam's Club for a little over $400.

This is another example of an assumption because those of you who don't like safety nets jump on anything and everything you can to prove your point, but once again, you don't know.
I hope this helps you understand.  Many say that a sign of a great nation is how it treats its citizens.  Just because YOU are not having problems and YOU are exempt from the deep issues our current financial crisis is wrecking upon formerly solid middle class families doesn't mean YOU have the answers for those not so fortunate.  Instead, YOU ought to be giving thanks because, there but for the grace of god go you.

I may be down but I'm not out by a long shot.  I'll let you know when the recovery begins....toodle oooo.


Biggs3535

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#46 : November 02, 2011, 02:01:30 PM

Over half of that went to Iraq and Afghanistan, Biggs.

Do those poor people not count?

On an aside, since you don't believe the government does enough to help the poor, how much extra of your income do you donate to help the poor in your area?


CBWx2

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#47 : November 02, 2011, 02:56:00 PM

Over half of that went to Iraq and Afghanistan, Biggs.

Do those poor people not count?

No, they don't. Certainly, they deserve our assistance, but how much of that assistance is necessary because we chose to bomb the hell out of them? If I stole your car and totaled it, and then bought you a new car, would that make me a generous person?

On an aside, since you don't believe the government does enough to help the poor, how much extra of your income do you donate to help the poor in your area?

I don't have a set percentage that I give, but I do my fair share. And on top of the money I donate, I also regularly donated my old clothes (or have even bought new ones to donate if I did not have what was in need at the time), food, my time, and have even donated my old automobiles rather than opting to sell them. Not going to get into a life story here, but my wife grew up poor, and was on assistance for much of her childhood. She remembers receiving food and clothes from the local food bank as a kid, and now makes it a point that we donate to that food bank whenever we have the opportunity to. I myself grew up with parents who, despite doing well for themselves, have always been very frugal. They never purchased new cars, clipped coupons, and we grew many of the fruits and vegetables that we consumed. Along with their frugality came an obligation to be charitable, as they both grew up poor as well. I have retained much of those values.


Biggs3535

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#48 : November 02, 2011, 03:09:41 PM

No, they don't.

Good to know.  We'll let you be the arbiter of who does and who doesn't count.  Taking out Iraq and Afganistan, that still leaves America around $23B in foreign aid, still almost double country #2 on the list.  Says a lot about those "extremely limited" resources.




I don't have a set percentage that I give, but I do my fair share.

Interesting choice of words. 



And on top of the money I donate, I also regularly donated my old clothes (or have even bought new ones to donate if I did not have what was in need at the time), food, my time, and have even donated my old automobiles rather than opting to sell them. Not going to get into a life story here, but my wife grew up poor, and was on assistance for much of her childhood. She remembers receiving food and clothes from the local food bank as a kid, and now makes it a point that we donate to that food bank whenever we have the opportunity to. I myself grew up with parents who, despite doing well for themselves, have always been very frugal. They never purchased new cars, clipped coupons, and we grew many of the fruits and vegetables that we consumed. Along with their frugality came an obligation to be charitable, as they both grew up poor as well. I have retained much of those values.

Wonderful story.  Now, shouldn't we implore more people to do that sort of stuff on their own?  If only 20% more of the population who could do more, would do more - everyone wins.  Because if you're like me, you get more joy out of giving than the people who receive those donated goods/money/time.


JavaRay

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#49 : November 02, 2011, 03:33:19 PM

I'm not saying nobody deserves food stamps.  I'm just curious how much they get each month.   I literally have no idea.


CBWx2

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#50 : November 02, 2011, 03:42:47 PM

No, they don't.

Good to know.  We'll let you be the arbiter of who does and who doesn't count. 

I see you've decided to ignore the rest of this statement. Not surprising. How much did we give to either of those countries prior to 2001 and 2003?

Taking out Iraq and Afganistan, that still leaves America around $23B in foreign aid, still almost double country #2 on the list.  Says a lot about those "extremely limited" resources.

Actually, for 2009 that leaves approximately $18 billion. And excluding Iraq and Afghanistan, the top 5 countries we send foreign aid to are 1. Israel 2. Egypt 3. Pakistan 4. Jordan, and 5. Kenya. Now, outside of Kenya, would you say those were the 5 countries that were most in need of assistance? Or perhaps, would you say that the other 4 are benefiting more from being useful to us politically?

And the "extremely limited" statement was in reference to domestic welfare. You chose to make it about something else, and quite frankly, you've failed to legitimize your point any more in doing so.

And on top of the money I donate, I also regularly donated my old clothes (or have even bought new ones to donate if I did not have what was in need at the time), food, my time, and have even donated my old automobiles rather than opting to sell them. Not going to get into a life story here, but my wife grew up poor, and was on assistance for much of her childhood. She remembers receiving food and clothes from the local food bank as a kid, and now makes it a point that we donate to that food bank whenever we have the opportunity to. I myself grew up with parents who, despite doing well for themselves, have always been very frugal. They never purchased new cars, clipped coupons, and we grew many of the fruits and vegetables that we consumed. Along with their frugality came an obligation to be charitable, as they both grew up poor as well. I have retained much of those values.

Wonderful story.  Now, shouldn't we implore more people to do that sort of stuff on their own?  If only 20% more of the population who could do more, would do more - everyone wins.  Because if you're like me, you get more joy out of giving than the people who receive those donated goods/money/time.

We absolutely should. In fact, I'm all in favor of it. But what happens if they don't?


Morgan

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#51 : November 02, 2011, 03:57:35 PM

I'm not saying nobody deserves food stamps.  I'm just curious how much they get each month.   I literally have no idea.

Please don't interrupt the conversation that these two have started again.  Yet another thread hijacked with their verbal ping-pong match.

Morgan

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#52 : November 02, 2011, 03:59:35 PM

Get's into a Cadillac DTS.

If this guy definitely was on food stamps, I'm going to guess that for every guy w/ a Cadillac there's 100's of other recipients that can't even afford a car.


John Galt?

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#53 : November 02, 2011, 04:04:16 PM

First, no one is getting rich or has it made because of Food Stamps (SNAP). Typically the benefits are around $150-$200/month, not much considering the skyrocketing cost of food especially meats. SANP can only be used for food and not prepared or hot foods (like fried chicken or rotisserie chicken at Publix, even though it is cheaper than the raw chicken).

Second, the HDTV thing is irrelevant. I buy my mom, who is living solely on a paltry SS check, a HDTV. If she sells it for $300, that is gone in under a month and now she has no TV unless she buys a CRT TV for $150. So saying she should use a stop-gap solution instead of a long term solution is short sighted. Now if a recipient BUYS a $1000 TV that is a different story.

Third, sure their are some that abuse the system, but that is not the biggest problem or cost. My biggest gripe is it takes around $45 to administer every $100 of benefits. My complaint isn't a welfare recipient having a HDTV, it is the welfare office needing an HDTV in their break room, and needing HD Computer screens to do their work, and needing new computers and software every other year, or their needing ergonomic chairs at their mahogany desks.

Fourth my other big concern about any entitlement program is it breeds a culture of dependency without creating any incentives or support system to get off the teat. As posted above, people don't want to get a job as a roofer for fear of losing the UE benefits they have become dependent on. The benefit programs need to be structured so there is a "weaning" process so that taking a new job isn't a bigger risk than staying unemployed.


CBWx2

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#54 : November 02, 2011, 04:07:31 PM

Get's into a Cadillac DTS.

If this guy definitely was on food stamps, I'm going to guess that for every guy w/ a Cadillac there's 100's of other recipients that can't even afford a car.

I would be inclined to agree with you Morgan, but haven't you been reading? These guys each know like 5 to 10 people on food stamps that drive $80,000 cars! That has to mean that it's an epidemic of massive proportions!


John Galt?

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#55 : November 02, 2011, 04:29:54 PM

Get's into a Cadillac DTS.

If this guy definitely was on food stamps, I'm going to guess that for every guy w/ a Cadillac there's 100's of other recipients that can't even afford a car.

I would be inclined to agree with you Morgan, but haven't you been reading? These guys each know like 5 to 10 people on food stamps that drive $80,000 cars! That has to mean that it's an epidemic of massive proportions!




Biggs3535

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#56 : November 02, 2011, 04:35:59 PM

How much did we give to either of those countries prior to 2001 and 2003?

I don't really care to look it up, but I'm willing to bet America still gave more money overseas than the vast majority of countries on the planet, if not all, in 2001 and 2003 -  however those years were cherry-picked.



Actually, for 2009 that leaves approximately $18 billion.

28 minus 5 doesn't equal 18.



And the "extremely limited" statement was in reference to domestic welfare. You chose to make it about something else, and quite frankly, you've failed to legitimize your point any more in doing so.

Is that right?  So which country on this planet spends more money on Social Programs domestically?


And 14% of the budget is going towards "Safety Net Programs"

Quote
Safety net programs: About 14 percent of the federal budget in 2010, or $496 billion, went to support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.

These programs include: the refundable portion of the earned-income and child tax credits, which assist low- and moderate-income working families through the tax code; programs that provide cash payments to eligible individuals or households, including Supplemental Security Income for the elderly or disabled poor and unemployment insurance; various forms of in-kind assistance for low-income families and individuals, including food stamps, school meals, low-income housing assistance, child-care assistance, and assistance in meeting home energy bills; and various other programs such as those that aid abused and neglected children.

A Center analysis shows that such programs kept approximately 15 million Americans out of poverty in 2005 and reduced the depth of poverty for another 29 million people. (Such programs likely kept even more Americans out of poverty since the recession began. For example, seven provisions of the Recovery Act enacted in February 2009 kept more than 6 million additional people out of poverty in 2009, according to a Center analysis.)



I know this is like asking a fat kid how many pizzas he should be allowed to eat, but exactly how much of the budget should be set aside for Social Programs?


John Galt?

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#57 : November 02, 2011, 04:43:36 PM


I know this is like asking a fat kid how many pizzas he should be allowed to eat, but exactly how much of the budget should be set aside for Social Programs?


I'd say 2/3rds of the $1.5 trillion in total expenditures ;)


BucNY

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#58 : November 02, 2011, 05:11:07 PM



However, I can see from this thread that some are just down on helping people like me and my family.



Couldn't be more wrong actually. I have no problem with temporarily helping people who need help. This thread was started over what looked like a person taking advantage of me, you and everyone else who pays or has paid taxes. This thread was at the people who think my tax money is their right and they should be able to have nice cars, nice houses and food stamps. It's at the young man in Judge Judy's court who takes assistance given to him for rent and uses it on anything but rent.

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BucNY

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#59 : November 02, 2011, 05:17:39 PM

Our welfare system is a good example of a few ruining something for many. What started off as a temp. way to help people who needed it turned into something very different. In tough economic times like this we all look at exactly where our money is going and it doesn't take long to see a large chunk of the paycheck going right out the door before I even see any of it.

People, like myself, who would be ok helping people get fed up with the abuse. They get so fed up with feeling like they are being taken advantage of that they no longer want to help, they want to shut the whole system down.

My grandfather owned a dairy farm. You know what happened when times got bad? Cousins, uncles, brothers, sisters, whoever, showed up at the door. He took them in, they worked for food and shelter and when the family could find other jobs they left again. Now when you need help you don't turn to your family and friends, you turn to uncle sam. Who's knows what is right and what is wrong. Who knows what is better or worse. Depends on which side of the coin you are on.

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