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Bayfisher

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« #255 : November 17, 2012, 12:36:33 PM »

I think the alarming increase in welfare is an indication of calculated strategy. 

Mr. Milich

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« #256 : November 17, 2012, 12:40:32 PM »

I think the alarming increase in welfare is an indication of calculated strategy.

Sounds interesting......Go on.

kevabuc

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« #257 : November 17, 2012, 12:40:35 PM »

You delight in informing a young black man that Martin Luther King was a Republican and seeing the utter shock in their eyes

Perhaps you should tell that young black man the whole story. About half of African Americans were Republican back then, with a majority of them being in the south in opposition to the "Dixiecrats", racist white southerners who voted primarily for the Democratic party. The epic shift occurred after the passing of the Civil Rights Act by LBJ, and the subsequent courting of the white racist vote by the Republican party as part of Nixon's "Southern Strategy".

Well, I could, but it woudn't be your concept of the "whole" story. It would include the complete story of how the so called southern strategy was at first laid on Goldwater's door step due to his vote against the 1964 Civil Rights Act which was proclaimed as "proof" he was racist and that his appeal to states rights was futher proof that he was in favor of the continuation of Jim Crow type laws. Then I would have to include that the reality to this alleged "racism" was Goldwater's efforts to integrate the Arizona National Guard before Truman even integrated the National Armed Forces and that Goldwater voted for all previous civil rights legislation and only opposed the 1964 Act on two provisions relating to property rights that he felt were unConstitutional, believing that private businesses and clubs were subject only to market conditions, not through government intervention.

Then I would have to address the alleged racism of Nixon appealing to the exploitation of white voters built on racial tensions when the reality is that because of Nixon's stance on civil rights George Wallace felt compelled to enter the 1968 race as a third party candidate, which Nixon said that “The deep south had to be virtually conceded to George Wallace. I could not match him there without compromising on civil rights, which I would not do.”   If you will remember, it was Nixon that appealed to Eisenhower to appoint Earl Warren to the Supreme Court, that it was Nixon that was in favor of sending troops in to integrate Little Rock High, that Nixon, after being elected virtually eliminated the idea of separate but equal in the scholls in the south, going from 68% of black students attending segregrated schools when he entered the Presidency to just 9% within 5 years.

I would then have to complete your whole story with the lie that all former Dixiecrats moved to the Republican party, when the reality is that only Strom Thurman changed parties while the other major Dixiecrats, Fulbright, Wallace, Gore and Byrd remained loyal Democrats till the end.

For a post script I would then add that the epic shift in blacks voting Democrat really began with FDR and that LBJ's reward of blacks shifting was due primarily on his ability to sell the idea that it was only he and the Dems that pushed through the 1964 Act, even though it was mostly wriitten by the Republicans.

So, as it is today, great marketing led to the shift in voting stance by blacks moreso then great reality.   

\"The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled.\" -Cicero. 106-43 B.C.

kevabuc

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« #258 : November 17, 2012, 12:47:16 PM »

Oh now its actually managed to get racist.

With such a compelling argument this must be true.

\"The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled.\" -Cicero. 106-43 B.C.

kevabuc

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« #259 : November 17, 2012, 12:50:24 PM »

You delight in informing a young black man that Martin Luther King was a Republican and seeing the utter shock in their eyes

You seem like an AWESOME guy!

If you believe that getting joy out of bringing the truth to someone who previously assumed something that was incorrect as awesome, then I am your guy. The truly awesome part was the open dialogue that followed.

\"The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled.\" -Cicero. 106-43 B.C.

wreck ship

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« #260 : November 17, 2012, 12:55:21 PM »

I think the alarming increase in welfare is an indication of calculated strategy.

Sounds interesting......Go on.
plz don't encourage it

philosophy is questions that may never be answered
religion is answers that may never be questioned

CBWx2

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« #261 : November 17, 2012, 01:04:35 PM »

You delight in informing a young black man that Martin Luther King was a Republican and seeing the utter shock in their eyes

Perhaps you should tell that young black man the whole story. About half of African Americans were Republican back then, with a majority of them being in the south in opposition to the "Dixiecrats", racist white southerners who voted primarily for the Democratic party. The epic shift occurred after the passing of the Civil Rights Act by LBJ, and the subsequent courting of the white racist vote by the Republican party as part of Nixon's "Southern Strategy".

Well, I could, but it woudn't be your concept of the "whole" story. It would include the complete story of how the so called southern strategy was at first laid on Goldwater's door step due to his vote against the 1964 Civil Rights Act which was proclaimed as "proof" he was racist and that his appeal to states rights was futher proof that he was in favor of the continuation of Jim Crow type laws. Then I would have to include that the reality to this alleged "racism" was Goldwater's efforts to integrate the Arizona National Guard before Truman even integrated the National Armed Forces and that Goldwater voted for all previous civil rights legislation and only opposed the 1964 Act on two provisions relating to property rights that he felt were unConstitutional, believing that private businesses and clubs were subject only to market conditions, not through government intervention.

Then I would have to address the alleged racism of Nixon appealing to the exploitation of white voters built on racial tensions when the reality is that because of Nixon's stance on civil rights George Wallace felt compelled to enter the 1968 race as a third party candidate, which Nixon said that “The deep south had to be virtually conceded to George Wallace. I could not match him there without compromising on civil rights, which I would not do.”   If you will remember, it was Nixon that appealed to Eisenhower to appoint Earl Warren to the Supreme Court, that it was Nixon that was in favor of sending troops in to integrate Little Rock High, that Nixon, after being elected virtually eliminated the idea of separate but equal in the scholls in the south, going from 68% of black students attending segregrated schools when he entered the Presidency to just 9% within 5 years.

I would then have to complete your whole story with the lie that all former Dixiecrats moved to the Republican party, when the reality is that only Strom Thurman changed parties while the other major Dixiecrats, Fulbright, Wallace, Gore and Byrd remained loyal Democrats till the end.

For a post script I would then add that the epic shift in blacks voting Democrat really began with FDR and that LBJ's reward of blacks shifting was due primarily on his ability to sell the idea that it was only he and the Dems that pushed through the 1964 Act, even though it was mostly wriitten by the Republicans.

So, as it is today, great marketing led to the shift in voting stance by blacks moreso then great reality.

I am aware of all of this, but it is at least, irrelevant, and at best, overly generous. Nixon and Goldwater did adopt the southern strategy, particularly in the general election, as a pathway to the needed electoral votes to win the presidency. It doesn't mean that they were racists, it means that they were opportunists. The Democrats getting 90+ percent of the black vote wasn't a result of marketing on behalf of Democrats in the least. The Republican leadership at the time was fully aware that that would be the consequence of adopting the strategy, but chose to go forward with it because it meant a solid majority in the South that a coalition of blacks and liberal whites could not come close to overcoming. The Democrats didn't take black votes away from Republicans. The Republican party willfully tossed aside their record on civil rights in favor of political expediency.


Mr. Milich

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« #262 : November 17, 2012, 01:06:11 PM »

I think the alarming increase in welfare is an indication of calculated strategy.

Sounds interesting......Go on.
plz don't encourage it

Haha!  :)

Seriously though I would like to hear his theory.

CBWx2

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« #263 : November 17, 2012, 01:10:04 PM »



Bottom line is that the Republican historical record on civil rights lost all merit when they made the conscious decision to court the white, racist vote, Kev. Your assertion that it was merely Democrats framing Republicans as the party of choice for white racists, and not the Republican party actually choosing to be the party of choice for white racists is patently false and disingenuous. The term "southern strategy" wasn't even coined by Democrats. It was coined by Nixon's own political strategist.
« : November 17, 2012, 01:25:24 PM CBWx2 »


dbucfan

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« #264 : November 17, 2012, 01:12:44 PM »

You delight in informing a young black man that Martin Luther King was a Republican and seeing the utter shock in their eyes

Perhaps you should tell that young black man the whole story. About half of African Americans were Republican back then, with a majority of them being in the south in opposition to the "Dixiecrats", racist white southerners who voted primarily for the Democratic party. The epic shift occurred after the passing of the Civil Rights Act by LBJ, and the subsequent courting of the white racist vote by the Republican party as part of Nixon's "Southern Strategy".

Well, I could, but it woudn't be your concept of the "whole" story. It would include the complete story of how the so called southern strategy was at first laid on Goldwater's door step due to his vote against the 1964 Civil Rights Act which was proclaimed as "proof" he was racist and that his appeal to states rights was futher proof that he was in favor of the continuation of Jim Crow type laws. Then I would have to include that the reality to this alleged "racism" was Goldwater's efforts to integrate the Arizona National Guard before Truman even integrated the National Armed Forces and that Goldwater voted for all previous civil rights legislation and only opposed the 1964 Act on two provisions relating to property rights that he felt were unConstitutional, believing that private businesses and clubs were subject only to market conditions, not through government intervention.

Then I would have to address the alleged racism of Nixon appealing to the exploitation of white voters built on racial tensions when the reality is that because of Nixon's stance on civil rights George Wallace felt compelled to enter the 1968 race as a third party candidate, which Nixon said that “The deep south had to be virtually conceded to George Wallace. I could not match him there without compromising on civil rights, which I would not do.”   If you will remember, it was Nixon that appealed to Eisenhower to appoint Earl Warren to the Supreme Court, that it was Nixon that was in favor of sending troops in to integrate Little Rock High, that Nixon, after being elected virtually eliminated the idea of separate but equal in the scholls in the south, going from 68% of black students attending segregrated schools when he entered the Presidency to just 9% within 5 years.

I would then have to complete your whole story with the lie that all former Dixiecrats moved to the Republican party, when the reality is that only Strom Thurman changed parties while the other major Dixiecrats, Fulbright, Wallace, Gore and Byrd remained loyal Democrats till the end.

For a post script I would then add that the epic shift in blacks voting Democrat really began with FDR and that LBJ's reward of blacks shifting was due primarily on his ability to sell the idea that it was only he and the Dems that pushed through the 1964 Act, even though it was mostly wriitten by the Republicans.

So, as it is today, great marketing led to the shift in voting stance by blacks moreso then great reality.
Thank you for the input Keva - I have read CBW's thougths before - and while i knew a fair bit of what you posted there is a good amount that was new and presented in an interesting fashion.  Thanks for taking the time.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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« #265 : November 17, 2012, 01:17:33 PM »

What an obnoxious remark.

I'm going to assume you are not currently on government assistance. But if you do have children and suddenly found yourself in need would you second guess yourself for having kids? I know I would never be obnoxious enough to dare ask you that same question.

 I would simply say ..."There but for the grace of God go I".

Maybe you should take on board that these things could happen to anyone of us including you and be thankful you are not in that situation.

i think there is a big difference between someone who has financially planned for a child and fallen on hard times and someone who is struggling to make ends meet with a minimum wage job having children.

but i agree its not the point of this thread, my fault on interjecting, and no im not an only child.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

Mr. Milich

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« #266 : November 17, 2012, 01:36:57 PM »

What an obnoxious remark.

I'm going to assume you are not currently on government assistance. But if you do have children and suddenly found yourself in need would you second guess yourself for having kids? I know I would never be obnoxious enough to dare ask you that same question.

 I would simply say ..."There but for the grace of God go I".

Maybe you should take on board that these things could happen to anyone of us including you and be thankful you are not in that situation.

i think there is a big difference between someone who has financially planned for a child and fallen on hard times and someone who is struggling to make ends meet with a minimum wage job having children.

Perhaps, but you know what they say.....the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray.

VinBucFan

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« #267 : November 17, 2012, 01:38:40 PM »

The term "southern strategy" wasn't even coined by Democrats. It was coined by Nixon's own political strategist.

 :-[

tripblood

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« #268 : November 17, 2012, 04:09:08 PM »

You delight in informing a young black man that Martin Luther King was a Republican and seeing the utter shock in their eyes

You seem like an AWESOME guy!

If you believe that getting joy out of bringing the truth to someone who previously assumed something that was incorrect as awesome, then I am your guy. The truly awesome part was the open dialogue that followed.

If thats something that brings you "delight", than you either need new hobbies or just a certified dooosh.

Things like sex, football, weed, and food come to mind when I think about "delightful". But delight out of informing a racial group that one of there leaders was of a certain political party? Thats whack
« : November 17, 2012, 04:11:24 PM tripblood »

Show No MRSA..

FIRE SCHIANO!!!!

Its so hard for me to sit back on this forum, lookin at a guy on here, holler in\' my name!  When last year i spent more on 5 electric bills from this side of the country to the other, than you made! You\'re talkin to the Rolex wearing, diamond earring wearing, kiss-stealin, WOOOO!, wheelin dealin\', CTS drivin, jet-flyin sonofagun.. And I\'m havin a hard time holding these alligators down! WOOOO!

tripblood

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« #269 : November 17, 2012, 04:17:42 PM »

You are slightly puzzled by 95% of blacks voted for a black man and race not being a factor

Not only is this not true, just as many black voters did so for Clinton.

Also, stop calling Obama a black man. Hes mixed race. If anything being raised by his white mama would make him more white than black.

Show No MRSA..

FIRE SCHIANO!!!!

Its so hard for me to sit back on this forum, lookin at a guy on here, holler in\' my name!  When last year i spent more on 5 electric bills from this side of the country to the other, than you made! You\'re talkin to the Rolex wearing, diamond earring wearing, kiss-stealin, WOOOO!, wheelin dealin\', CTS drivin, jet-flyin sonofagun.. And I\'m havin a hard time holding these alligators down! WOOOO!
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