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spartan

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#615 : March 28, 2013, 09:41:58 PM

Once could argue that the overhead for SNAP should also include a portion of the IRS budget for collection purposes, the Whitehouse, Congress etc

In all honesty it is difficult to make an apple to apple comparison,

John Galt?

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#616 : April 03, 2013, 12:38:29 PM

Well even if I use the total number of people that filed returns- 142 million, that is still $549/yr which is a Loooooong way from $16.90.

Taking the total cost of the program and dividing it by the number of income tax filings ignores the fact that income taxes are not the federal government's only revenue stream. Even the average person with a negative income tax burden does not have a negative overall tax burden, and you are also leaving off taxes collected from business, sales tax, etc.

If you were to take the average married individual who is making $50,000 a year, their annual tax burden is roughly $3,820. About 2/3rds of that goes towards SSI and Medicare, and another $500 or so goes towards Medicaid and national defense. Most of what's left over goes towards various other expenses, like infrastructure, law enforcement, various grants and subsidies, agriculture, etc. About $190, about 19% of the overall tax burden, goes towards Job and Family Security. These include things like unemployment insurance, housing assistance, funding the EITC, etc. Out of that same category lies the food assistance program. $36.84, about 3.7% of the overall tax burden, goes directly towards food assistance. Admittedly, this is twice as much as I said before, but you also have to keep in mind that the cost of the program has doubled over the course of the last few years as a result of the recession. In boom years, the program has generally cost the average tax payer about $16-$17 annually.

Now obviously, if you make substantially more than $50,000 a year, like say, you have a multiple 7-figure income, then yes, you are going to be paying more than $32.84 annually to fund that program, but it will still be the proportionate 3.7% of your overall tax burden.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/2011-taxreceipt


Good grief that is still some serious backpedaling and still some bad math.

Okay, there are 314,000,000 people in the US. The program costs 78,000,000,000. 78 billion divided by 314 million is $248 which is still waaaay higher than $32.84 or your original $16.90. That is even assuming that every man, women, child, infant, prisoner, invalid, persons in a coma, persons mentally incompetent, etc. pays some sort of tax burden


Dolorous Jason

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#617 : April 03, 2013, 04:39:14 PM

Fuzzy math,  my dear comrade,  fuzzy math indeed.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

spartan

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#618 : April 03, 2013, 07:26:55 PM

Well even if I use the total number of people that filed returns- 142 million, that is still $549/yr which is a Loooooong way from $16.90.

Taking the total cost of the program and dividing it by the number of income tax filings ignores the fact that income taxes are not the federal government's only revenue stream. Even the average person with a negative income tax burden does not have a negative overall tax burden, and you are also leaving off taxes collected from business, sales tax, etc.

If you were to take the average married individual who is making $50,000 a year, their annual tax burden is roughly $3,820. About 2/3rds of that goes towards SSI and Medicare, and another $500 or so goes towards Medicaid and national defense. Most of what's left over goes towards various other expenses, like infrastructure, law enforcement, various grants and subsidies, agriculture, etc. About $190, about 19% of the overall tax burden, goes towards Job and Family Security. These include things like unemployment insurance, housing assistance, funding the EITC, etc. Out of that same category lies the food assistance program. $36.84, about 3.7% of the overall tax burden, goes directly towards food assistance. Admittedly, this is twice as much as I said before, but you also have to keep in mind that the cost of the program has doubled over the course of the last few years as a result of the recession. In boom years, the program has generally cost the average tax payer about $16-$17 annually.

Now obviously, if you make substantially more than $50,000 a year, like say, you have a multiple 7-figure income, then yes, you are going to be paying more than $32.84 annually to fund that program, but it will still be the proportionate 3.7% of your overall tax burden.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/2011-taxreceipt


Good grief that is still some serious backpedaling and still some bad math.

Okay, there are 314,000,000 people in the US. The program costs 78,000,000,000. 78 billion divided by 314 million is $248 which is still waaaay higher than $32.84 or your original $16.90. That is even assuming that every man, women, child, infant, prisoner, invalid, persons in a coma, persons mentally incompetent, etc. pays some sort of tax burden

What CBW is saying is the majority of the program is also funded by other 'revenue streams'. i..e corporate taxes etc. What it ignores is that all non income related taxes end up in the price of goods we buy so we end up paying for it just roundabouts instead of directly. So JG's point holds IMO.

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#619 : April 09, 2013, 04:38:29 PM

Well even if I use the total number of people that filed returns- 142 million, that is still $549/yr which is a Loooooong way from $16.90.

Taking the total cost of the program and dividing it by the number of income tax filings ignores the fact that income taxes are not the federal government's only revenue stream. Even the average person with a negative income tax burden does not have a negative overall tax burden, and you are also leaving off taxes collected from business, sales tax, etc.

If you were to take the average married individual who is making $50,000 a year, their annual tax burden is roughly $3,820. About 2/3rds of that goes towards SSI and Medicare, and another $500 or so goes towards Medicaid and national defense. Most of what's left over goes towards various other expenses, like infrastructure, law enforcement, various grants and subsidies, agriculture, etc. About $190, about 19% of the overall tax burden, goes towards Job and Family Security. These include things like unemployment insurance, housing assistance, funding the EITC, etc. Out of that same category lies the food assistance program. $36.84, about 3.7% of the overall tax burden, goes directly towards food assistance. Admittedly, this is twice as much as I said before, but you also have to keep in mind that the cost of the program has doubled over the course of the last few years as a result of the recession. In boom years, the program has generally cost the average tax payer about $16-$17 annually.

Now obviously, if you make substantially more than $50,000 a year, like say, you have a multiple 7-figure income, then yes, you are going to be paying more than $32.84 annually to fund that program, but it will still be the proportionate 3.7% of your overall tax burden.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/2011-taxreceipt


Good grief that is still some serious backpedaling and still some bad math.

Okay, there are 314,000,000 people in the US. The program costs 78,000,000,000. 78 billion divided by 314 million is $248 which is still waaaay higher than $32.84 or your original $16.90. That is even assuming that every man, women, child, infant, prisoner, invalid, persons in a coma, persons mentally incompetent, etc. pays some sort of tax burden

The federal budget was approximately 2.5 trillion dollars in 2011. Using your logic, that means that every man, women, child, infant, prisoner, invalid, persons in a coma, persons mentally incompetent, etc. pays approximately $8,000 a year in income taxes. We both know that isn't the case, correct?

Perhaps I should have stated it better, granted. But my comment was in reference to the median US income, which is approximately $50,000 a year. That person paid about $35 on food assistance for 2011. In non-recession years, that person pays about $15-$17 annually on food assistance. Call it whatever kind of math you want, but it is what it is. And for individuals making more than the median, it still only accounts for 3.7% of their overall tax burden. If eliminated altogether, the average taxpayer of any tax bracket wouldn't even notice the amount that they would be saving from it.


John Galt?

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#620 : April 11, 2013, 10:26:47 AM

Well even if I use the total number of people that filed returns- 142 million, that is still $549/yr which is a Loooooong way from $16.90.

Taking the total cost of the program and dividing it by the number of income tax filings ignores the fact that income taxes are not the federal government's only revenue stream. Even the average person with a negative income tax burden does not have a negative overall tax burden, and you are also leaving off taxes collected from business, sales tax, etc.

If you were to take the average married individual who is making $50,000 a year, their annual tax burden is roughly $3,820. About 2/3rds of that goes towards SSI and Medicare, and another $500 or so goes towards Medicaid and national defense. Most of what's left over goes towards various other expenses, like infrastructure, law enforcement, various grants and subsidies, agriculture, etc. About $190, about 19% of the overall tax burden, goes towards Job and Family Security. These include things like unemployment insurance, housing assistance, funding the EITC, etc. Out of that same category lies the food assistance program. $36.84, about 3.7% of the overall tax burden, goes directly towards food assistance. Admittedly, this is twice as much as I said before, but you also have to keep in mind that the cost of the program has doubled over the course of the last few years as a result of the recession. In boom years, the program has generally cost the average tax payer about $16-$17 annually.

Now obviously, if you make substantially more than $50,000 a year, like say, you have a multiple 7-figure income, then yes, you are going to be paying more than $32.84 annually to fund that program, but it will still be the proportionate 3.7% of your overall tax burden.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/2011-taxreceipt


Good grief that is still some serious backpedaling and still some bad math.

Okay, there are 314,000,000 people in the US. The program costs 78,000,000,000. 78 billion divided by 314 million is $248 which is still waaaay higher than $32.84 or your original $16.90. That is even assuming that every man, women, child, infant, prisoner, invalid, persons in a coma, persons mentally incompetent, etc. pays some sort of tax burden

The federal budget was approximately 2.5 trillion dollars in 2011.


Try $3.603 billion                   http://www.cbo.gov/publication/42636

But what is an extra $1.1 trillion? Using Dem math that is only an extra $1.65/week for the average tax payer, right??


Using your logic, that means that every man, women, child, infant, prisoner, invalid, persons in a coma, persons mentally incompetent, etc. pays approximately $8,000 a year in income taxes. We both know that isn't the case, correct?

No, not correct just hyperbolic sarcasm. Something some just don't get.


But the debate was on tax burden NOT on Income taxes paid. Using the entire population and assuming that corp taxes, fees, and other federal tax revs are in one way or another passed on to consumers (higher prices) or shareholders the entire population would include all consumers and shareholders.


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#621 : April 15, 2013, 11:00:52 AM

At gas station last week... guy in front of me in line used EBT card to buy twenty something dollars worth of snacks and drinks.

The man then asked for a carton of Newports and paid with his debit card. 

Awesome.  Isn't America great?


BucNY

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#622 : April 15, 2013, 02:38:30 PM

At gas station last week... guy in front of me in line used EBT card to buy twenty something dollars worth of snacks and drinks.

The man then asked for a carton of Newports and paid with his debit card. 

Awesome.  Isn't America great?

Lol

That is the point of this thread. I'm all for helping people get back on their feet. I'm not for welfare being a career choice. Many likely use it for it's intention, others do not and scam the system.

\\\\\\\"This forum needs a poster like BucNY now more than ever\\\\\\\"
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Snook

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#623 : April 21, 2013, 08:26:33 AM

At gas station last week... guy in front of me in line used EBT card to buy twenty something dollars worth of snacks and drinks.

The man then asked for a carton of Newports and paid with his debit card. 

Awesome.  Isn't America great?

Lol

That is the point of this thread. I'm all for helping people get back on their feet. I'm not for welfare being a career choice. Many likely use it for it's intention, others do not and scam the system.



Yep.  And I'm actually surprised no one posted excuses for the guy I mentioned.  But there aren't any.   

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