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BucBalla85

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« #15 : November 02, 2011, 01:31:04 PM »

Its probably why the Glazers felt they needed to hire a coach like Morris. The "inherently dishonest" label cant be good.

ryan24

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« #16 : November 02, 2011, 01:48:59 PM »

I think there's enough evidence to conclude that Gruden rarely said negative things to his players and in some issues may have made some promises to players he really didn't have control of....the Keenan situation in particular.

As to his QB show and other comments he makes....he will have negative comments but he's not very direct. His comments about Gaines Adams "leading the league in effort" came across to me as "he's lazy, I didn't want him, and he'd better work at it". He made comments to Claussen in the form of a question which were picking Claussen's apparent unwillingness to take on some responsibility. He can be very sarcastic and selfeffacing and....coming from someone who is sarcastic and self effacing....that doesn't always come out right.

I heard King's comments when said. I didn't find them out of line.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

jerseybucsfan

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« #17 : November 02, 2011, 01:59:59 PM »

Ryan, you made a good point that I don't think we can deny. Jon may have been trying to be positive by making certain promises, but since he didn't have control over the situation, it wound up backfiring on him bigtime with players who YEARS later are calling him a liar. It's not so much that he didn't keep his promise; it wasn't his to keep. So he overstepped his bounds more than was dishonest.
I didn't draw that conclusion on Adams. There's a worst-case scenario with every player (death) and we found it twice in our history (Adams and Ricky Bell). It's incredible to think how history may have played out differently if they didn't get sick.
As for Gruden, there were a lot of guys who were going to be in decline all at ONCE. Good situation to maximize short-run potential, but bad one to deal with all the fallout. Ironically, Dungy missed having to deal with that twice. He got out just in time in Tampa and just in time in Indy so that he smells like a rose in the long run.

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Feel Real Good

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« #18 : November 02, 2011, 02:10:58 PM »

From what I've gathered, Gruden is bipolar with his players. When he first gets a player, he loves the player and the sky is the limit. He'll pour everything he has into making that player the perfect player. But eventually he discovers the player's faults and the new toy starts to lose its luster, and Gruden starts wondering about what kinds of other toys are out there, and he'll pretty much shut the door on the old player and that's it.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

jerseybucsfan

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« #19 : November 02, 2011, 02:35:42 PM »

Or maybe he turns on the guys who don't give him the effort he gives them.

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Benchwarmer#1

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« #20 : November 02, 2011, 02:56:27 PM »

I remember when Simms (NOT one of my favorite players) coughed up a spleen and Gruden was ticked about it, questioning if he was really "ok" or not.

..After that I knew he was a A hole coach. It explains a lot as to why they would never go back to the SB imvho.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

jerseybucsfan

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« #21 : November 02, 2011, 02:59:23 PM »

That had ZERO to do with them not going back to the Super Bowl. That's straight out of Wichita (Kansas) to borrow a line from a favorite movie.
They weren't good enough.

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« #22 : November 02, 2011, 03:13:05 PM »

That had ZERO to do with them not going back to the Super Bowl. That's straight out of Wichita (Kansas) to borrow a line from a favorite movie.
They weren't good enough.

No, but if Gruden's attitude was like that particular instance 24/7, no wonder why.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

BucsGuru

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« #23 : November 02, 2011, 03:21:04 PM »

IMO, Gruden lived out his playing days through his coaching.  Many players echoed what seemed as though they were actually having to compete with their coach when their coach should have been the guy building them up and allowing them to have their glory.  The world is full of people just like this; nothing uncommon....Gruden fits the mold perfectly.  That is why I believe he will never coach again in the NFL...he has a superbowl and is satisfied.  There was another coach turned commentator who was just like this; his name.....John Madden. 

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« #24 : November 02, 2011, 03:35:07 PM »

IMO, Gruden lived out his playing days through his coaching.  Many players echoed what seemed as though they were actually having to compete with their coach when their coach should have been the guy building them up and allowing them to have their glory.  The world is full of people just like this; nothing uncommon....Gruden fits the mold perfectly.  That is why I believe he will never coach again in the NFL...he has a superbowl and is satisfied.  There was another coach turned commentator who was just like this; his name.....John Madden.

Without Gruden I still don't think the Bucs bring the Lombardi home. Sometimes it takes an "A hole" to get all the other "A holes" to work harder to get the job done (no pun intended).

With that being said, there had to have been some type of mutiny for him to be released 3 years early. Probably because of his attitude.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

DefenseWins

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« #25 : November 02, 2011, 03:39:48 PM »

Excuse my redundancy, but I'll repeat what I wrote in another thread..

"Gramatica falls apart, psychologically.

Sapp, still waiting for Gruden to call him back.

McCardell, said the coach was a liar.

Lynch, released unceremoniously "not" passing physical. Left feeling like he was dealt with dishonestlly. Picked up right away and productive in Denver.

Keyshawn, a highly productive receiver, released because he could not be dealt with.

Thomas Jones, shows he is productive, then we let him walk.

Charlie Garner.

Galloway, can't get him on field with Bryant.

Alstott, talks about loving what the guy brings, but then won't use him.

Bruce Gradkowski...

Garcia/Griese? Won't decide on starter.

Rob Johnson... lol

Going after Favre...


Don't miss it. "


What really bothers me is how so many of Buc "fans" watched so many cherished players get mistreated, and ALWAYS defended the coach.. Sickening, honestly.






It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

italianbuc23

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« #26 : November 02, 2011, 03:39:53 PM »

Seriously King needs to let this go. Every year he has something to say about Gruden. You havent been in Tampa for almost 10 years. Im aware its the only thing keeping you remotely relevant but LET IT GO. You were not that good

Benchwarmer#1

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« #27 : November 02, 2011, 03:59:20 PM »

Excuse my redundancy, but I'll repeat what I wrote in another thread..

"Gramatica falls apart, psychologically.

Sapp, still waiting for Gruden to call him back.

McCardell, said the coach was a liar.

Lynch, released unceremoniously "not" passing physical. Left feeling like he was dealt with dishonestly. Picked up right away and productive in Denver.

Keyshawn, a highly productive receiver, released because he could not be dealt with.

Thomas Jones, shows he is productive, then we let him walk.

Charlie Garner.

Galloway, can't get him on field with Bryant.

Alstott, talks about loving what the guy brings, but then won't use him.

Bruce Gradkowski...

Garcia/Griese? Won't decide on starter.

Rob Johnson... lol

Going after Favre...


Don't miss it. "


What really bothers me is how so many of Buc "fans" watched so many cherished players get mistreated, and ALWAYS defended the coach.. Sickening, honestly.

Eh, we could go that way with the Current HC too.

-Let Brooks walk like he was nothing.

-Promised Luke a chance at a job, but knew all along he wanted to bring someone in (Leftfish, then Freeman).

-Let Barrett walk, but re-signed QBlack.

I could go on if I wanted to, but the points is, every coach has choices to make and not everyone is going to like them. Sometimes there are actual good reasons for it, and others it's just pride getting in the way. In Gruden's case though, it was indeed the pride part. So I do agree with you to some extent.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

CyberDilemma

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« #28 : November 02, 2011, 04:01:14 PM »

Quote from: ProFootballTalk
Meanwhile, and in all fairness to Gruden, we’ll wait for one or more of his former players to publicly declare that Gruden is inherently honest.

Didn't McCardell and Sapp do that already??


You can also add Joe Jerivicius to that list....

Quote
It wasn't Keyshawn Johnson chewing off his ear for more passes. It wasn't Keenan McCardell shaking him down for more money.

But after practice Thursday, coach Jon Gruden went head to head with another veteran receiver.

Four times during an animated, five-minute discussion, Joe Jurevicius turned his back to walk away while Gruden was talking. Four times, he returned to finish a point.

source: http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/21/Bucs/Frustrated_Jurevicius.shtml

That article is old but I do remember reading another article in the past couple of months where Jurivicius recently had some unkind words to say about Gruden.

dbucfan

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« #29 : November 02, 2011, 05:50:17 PM »

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/02/shaun-king-calls-jon-gruden-inherently-dishonest/
Specifically, King said Gruden is “inherently dishonest.”
SOB must have given poor Shaun the idea he had the talent to play on Sundays.  Damn Gruden.... ;)

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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