Rick Perry is officially done!

[Vatican_Assassin]

After hearing him in the debate tonight, he couldn't even remember the third department in the federal government he would eliminate. He was stumbling and looking at his cheat sheet trying to remember, it was hilarious. I was kind of feeling bad for him. I'm waiting for the YouTube clip.

[Fitz66]

That was painful to watch.  He lost all consideration from me when he was going after Mit and the illegals.

Newt is sounding better and better.  Old codger might just win my vote...

Perrys blunder:
http://nationaljournal.com/2012-presidential-campaign/perry-can-t-remember-agency-he-wants-to-cut-video-20111109

[Legend]

I already made up my mind and I'm voting for Ron Paul. There isn't a worthy person this coming election once again. No way Cain is getting anywhere, dude is a molester.

[Escobar06]

I didn't watch it but I'm voting for Paul, no question about it. TRUE change will happen if that man gets elected, the thought of no more Fed, no more IRS, no more income tax, as well as everything else he's planned to do away with has me giddy. Nobody knows how it will work out if it all comes to fruition but I'm definitely going to do my part to help him get elected so we can find out.

[Legend]

ITs too bad this guy isn't running.

[Fitz66]

"57 states"


It happens to everyone.  Even those with a teleprompter.

[John Galt?]

I didn't watch it but I'm voting for Paul, no question about it. TRUE change will happen if that man gets elected, the thought of no more Fed, no more IRS, no more income tax, as well as everything else he's planned to do away with has me giddy.

My first problem with Paul besides his age is he can't do any of those things he is promising. He is running for President, not Emperor. Only and act of Congress can change the Fed, eliminate the IRS, and change the tax codes.

My next problem is I definitely don't agree with some of those moves and they come across as "crazy man talk" rants that are poorly defined and thought thru. For example:

If you eliminate the IRS, then who oversees and enforces the collection of Revenues? Not just personal Income taxes, but also Corp taxes, tariffs, use fees, lease payments, fines, surcharges, FICA taxes, excise taxes, etc. etc. There is a huge difference between "reorganize/reduce the IRS" and "Eliminate".

If you eliminate the income tax, how do you replace the $1.1 trillion in revenues? Again "eliminate" vs "reorganize and reduce"

If you eliminate the FED, now you got a huge clusterflop on your hands. Who then takes over check clearing-do we go back to the days where checks take 7-14 days to clear? Who provides liquidity for the banking system-do we go back to the days of frequent bank runs and people losing all their deposits? How do you replace the $50 Billion ($79 billion last year) in revenues the FED generates for the Treasury every year?? How provides the systems and data for debit card networks-do we just eliminate debit card usage? What about ACHs and Direct Deposit?............again "reorganize" vs "eliminate"

Also as the Pirate Coves Official defender of the FRB    I have to ask...again...about the 10th time...what exactly has the FRB done that is so sinister? Yes, they have made mistakes and mishandled things, but their mishandling is FAAAAR less than the blunders of Congress and Federal Agencies (SEC, FDIC, FAnnie/Freddie, HUD, etc.). I have yet to read or hear one cognitive reason for why the FRB should be eliminated.

[spartan]

I didn't watch it but I'm voting for Paul, no question about it. TRUE change will happen if that man gets elected, the thought of no more Fed, no more IRS, no more income tax, as well as everything else he's planned to do away with has me giddy.

My first problem with Paul besides his age is he can't do any of those things he is promising. He is running for President, not Emperor. Only and act of Congress can change the Fed, eliminate the IRS, and change the tax codes.

My next problem is I definitely don't agree with some of those moves and they come across as "crazy man talk" rants that are poorly defined and thought thru. For example:

If you eliminate the IRS, then who oversees and enforces the collection of Revenues? Not just personal Income taxes, but also Corp taxes, tariffs, use fees, lease payments, fines, surcharges, FICA taxes, excise taxes, etc. etc. There is a huge difference between "reorganize/reduce the IRS" and "Eliminate".

If you eliminate the income tax, how do you replace the $1.1 trillion in revenues? Again "eliminate" vs "reorganize and reduce"

If you eliminate the FED, now you got a huge clusterflop on your hands. Who then takes over check clearing-do we go back to the days where checks take 7-14 days to clear? Who provides liquidity for the banking system-do we go back to the days of frequent bank runs and people losing all their deposits? How do you replace the $50 Billion ($79 billion last year) in revenues the FED generates for the Treasury every year?? How provides the systems and data for debit card networks-do we just eliminate debit card usage? What about ACHs and Direct Deposit?............again "reorganize" vs "eliminate"

Also as the Pirate Coves Official defender of the FRB    I have to ask...again...about the 10th time...what exactly has the FRB done that is so sinister? Yes, they have made mistakes and mishandled things, but their mishandling is FAAAAR less than the blunders of Congress and Federal Agencies (SEC, FDIC, FAnnie/Freddie, HUD, etc.). I have yet to read or hear one cognitive reason for why the FRB should be eliminated.

Fair Tax?

[John Galt?]

Fair tax? Yeah, sure. Give me the outline and a few of the details and I'll definitely consider it. But a Fair Tax or Flat Tax or even a National Sales Tax will still need an IRS like agency to collect and oversee it.

A Fair Tax isn't eliminating Income Tax, it is reorganizing it.

In politics and economics, which are intertwined, there are a perverse version of Newton's Laws of Motion at work.

1. a sector of the economy at rest, tend to stay at rest, and a sector in motion tends to stay in motion until acted upon by an outside force. That force can be laws/regs, technology, other sectors, etc. This also applies to govt. agencies and political trends.

2. the growth/acceleration of a sector is proportional to the utility (usefulness) of the product/service and inversely proportional to the costs. i.e. software remains a growth industry because it is useful with new uses coming out all the time and because the costs (especially materials) is very low. Autos is not a growth industry because usefulness/demand is peaked/flat and costs (labor and materials) continues to rise.

3. For every (govt.) action there is an opposite and often unpredictable reaction. Raise taxes on businesses and they decrease payrolls leading to job loss leading to economic slow down leading to less tax revenue.

When you talk about ALL or NONE options like "eliminating X" you get opposite and unpredictable results and unpredictable changes in the motion of the economy.

[Legend]

Howard Dean - who knows, possibly all the failures of GWB's second term might not have been realized and our country might have been in a little better shape economically and militarily.

I think he had a shot at winning that year. But that right there killed his hopes.

[Fitz66]

Goofy yes - but look at the current crop of GOP candidates - I think most of them have had their share of goofy moments - some more recently than others.....

Have you even heard of Joe Biden?  He tried to get a man in a f'n wheelchair to stand up...

[Biggs3535]

Have you even heard of Joe Biden?  He tried to get a man in a f'n wheelchair to stand up...

You can't make that stuff up.  Biden is, by far, the Gaffe-King.

[Escobar06]

I didn't watch it but I'm voting for Paul, no question about it. TRUE change will happen if that man gets elected, the thought of no more Fed, no more IRS, no more income tax, as well as everything else he's planned to do away with has me giddy.

My first problem with Paul besides his age is he can't do any of those things he is promising. He is running for President, not Emperor. Only and act of Congress can change the Fed, eliminate the IRS, and change the tax codes.

My next problem is I definitely don't agree with some of those moves and they come across as "crazy man talk" rants that are poorly defined and thought thru. For example:

If you eliminate the IRS, then who oversees and enforces the collection of Revenues? Not just personal Income taxes, but also Corp taxes, tariffs, use fees, lease payments, fines, surcharges, FICA taxes, excise taxes, etc. etc. There is a huge difference between "reorganize/reduce the IRS" and "Eliminate".

If you eliminate the income tax, how do you replace the $1.1 trillion in revenues? Again "eliminate" vs "reorganize and reduce"

If you eliminate the FED, now you got a huge clusterflop on your hands. Who then takes over check clearing-do we go back to the days where checks take 7-14 days to clear? Who provides liquidity for the banking system-do we go back to the days of frequent bank runs and people losing all their deposits? How do you replace the $50 Billion ($79 billion last year) in revenues the FED generates for the Treasury every year?? How provides the systems and data for debit card networks-do we just eliminate debit card usage? What about ACHs and Direct Deposit?............again "reorganize" vs "eliminate"

Also as the Pirate Coves Official defender of the FRB    I have to ask...again...about the 10th time...what exactly has the FRB done that is so sinister? Yes, they have made mistakes and mishandled things, but their mishandling is FAAAAR less than the blunders of Congress and Federal Agencies (SEC, FDIC, FAnnie/Freddie, HUD, etc.). I have yet to read or hear one cognitive reason for why the FRB should be eliminated.

I'll be the first to admit politics aren't my thing, I just like the thought of a more simplified government. You ask good questions, I only have a couple answers. Regarding where the extra revenue comes from if income tax is eliminated....the theory is that with all the eliminated programs the revenue won't be missed. That's Paul's entire premise, at least when it relates to downsizing the government...to eliminate the variety of black holes tax dollars are disappearing into. It's a dizzying proposition in a country where the government takes as much as they can....a guy claiming to want to eliminate so much in order to save Americans money? Unheard of.  It may or may not work out the way he's hoping it will if he gets elected but this is the type of change I like to hear about.

As far as the FED, Paul claims they have been giving massive loans to foreign banks...tax payer funded loans. I have no reason to doubt the man...he seems as honest as they come.

[John Galt?]

I'll be the first to admit politics aren't my thing, I just like the thought of a more simplified government. You ask good questions, I only have a couple answers. Regarding where the extra revenue comes from if income tax is eliminated....the theory is that with all the eliminated programs the revenue won't be missed. That's Paul's entire premise, at least when it relates to downsizing the government...to eliminate the variety of black holes tax dollars are disappearing into. It's a dizzying proposition in a country where the government takes as much as they can....a guy claiming to want to eliminate so much in order to save Americans money? Unheard of.  It may or may not work out the way he's hoping it will if he gets elected but this is the type of change I like to hear about.

I just am critical of anyone that uses too many absolutes. Cutting spending-yes, eliminating spending-just not realistic.

Also the order is imperative. FIRST cut the spending then lower the taxes. We have had too many that lowered taxes but then RAISED spending, that can't continue.

As far as the FED, Paul claims they have been giving massive loans to foreign banks...tax payer funded loans. I have no reason to doubt the man...he seems as honest as they come.

Well that is flat out wrong. The FED doesn't receive one DIME of tax payer money. In fact it donates most of its earnings to the treasury every year-$79 Billion last year. The FED gets ALL of its funds from member banks that deposit funds with the FED in exchange for shares of the FED and the right to use FED resources such as discount window loans, check clearing, electronic transaction facilities, etc. The FED does not get one dime of tax money for anything. ZERO-NADA-ZILCH