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#30 : November 14, 2011, 09:52:19 PM

I don't think the Bucs lack talent at WR.  It is misutilized, and some are not even used at all (Spurlock).

I couldn't agree more!!!

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#31 : November 14, 2011, 10:24:03 PM

our recievers suck...benn cant catch briscoe cant get open and MWill cant get open... however i would not spend a number 1 pick on a reciver unless they had potential to be one of the top 5or 6 guys in the league.. id rather sign someone like Desean Jackson, Victor Cruz or Mario Manningham...

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#32 : November 14, 2011, 11:04:29 PM

I don't think the Bucs lack talent at WR.  It is misutilized, and some are not even used at all (Spurlock).

I couldn't agree more!!!

Yep.  Correct me if I'm wong, but have the Bucs even attempted a deep post this season? Seems all the medium to deep (the few there have been) have all been to the sidelines.  Can't recall anything to the deep middle.  Now, the 3 yard middle? Don't get me started...

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#33 : November 14, 2011, 11:45:39 PM

I think they could still use a definite #1 guy. I think that would make Benn and Williams so much better.
yep.  there is no Tiger Woods on this offense.


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#34 : November 14, 2011, 11:52:49 PM

our recievers suck...benn cant catch briscoe cant get open and MWill cant get open... however i would not spend a number 1 pick on a reciver unless they had potential to be one of the top 5or 6 guys in the league.. id rather sign someone like Desean Jackson, Victor Cruz or Mario Manningham...
Good luck getting Jackson, he will be getting the franchise tag. Cruz or Manningham is possible. But neither are #1 WRs which we need.


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#35 : November 15, 2011, 12:07:01 AM

I don't think the Bucs lack talent at WR.  It is misutilized, and some are not even used at all (Spurlock).

I couldn't agree more!!!

Yep.  Correct me if I'm wong, but have the Bucs even attempted a deep post this season? Seems all the medium to deep (the few there have been) have all been to the sidelines.  Can't recall anything to the deep middle.  Now, the 3 yard middle? Don't get me started...


Yeah, Benn scored a TD on a deep post earlier this season.

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#36 : November 15, 2011, 12:08:10 AM

When the defense doesn't have to defend more than 15 yds past the LOS, no one is gonna get open. And if by chance a WR does go deep, Free is too coward to make the throw. Good thing is Green Bay will force us to come outta our offensive shell this week.

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#37 : November 15, 2011, 12:20:13 AM

I don't think the Bucs lack talent at WR.  It is misutilized, and some are not even used at all (Spurlock).

I couldn't agree more!!!

Yep.  Correct me if I'm wong, but have the Bucs even attempted a deep post this season? Seems all the medium to deep (the few there have been) have all been to the sidelines.  Can't recall anything to the deep middle.  Now, the 3 yard middle? Don't get me started...


Yeah, Benn scored a TD on a deep post earlier this season.

Missed that one, as I was traveling.  Thanks though.  So, one thru 9 games. 

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#38 : November 15, 2011, 07:22:31 AM

I think last years passing success was more a fact of teams challenging Freeman and the Bucs to throw. Now opposing defenses are daring the Bucs to run and instead covering the pass and effectively, and sometimes seemingly effortlessly, they are shutting down the WR's. Last year Williams surprised  a lot of people and was able to take advantage of it. Now he is has basically been removed from the Bucs offense. I think he may also be having a bit of a sophomore slump, but some of the effort he gives can only remind you of Clayton.  Many people thought, myself included he could be a #1 WR. I'm not so sure now. Is he really any better or produced anymore than Benn or Parker or Briscoe? The obvious answer to that is no. I would not go into this draft looking for a WR, but if a top notch WR drops to whatever position the Bucs are at, especially if he has the speed Williams and this offense sorely lack, you take him.

Clayton could get open, that he could do. He just couldn't catch a cold after his first season.

Williams doesn't know how to get open and is not being coached how to evidently.

Have you not seen the numerous balls hit Williams right in the hands only for him to drop them?

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#39 : November 15, 2011, 08:30:50 AM

The lack of Spurlock is puzzling. I think a huge part of the sucky play by young WR core (whole team really) is none of them had to EARN a spot. If thats not bad enough even when they drop a pass or mess up they are trotted right back out there. A head coach should pull a young player for a few plays for bone headed mistakes. Rah could send Spurlock in and have absolutely no drop off in performance what so ever. Instead Mike Williams drops a pass. Claps his hands and smiles.  Hell Von Miller even got pulled and he has 6.5 sacks! Rah has no clue what "accountabilty" is in the pros. Making guys run gassers? Is this high school? Hell no pull their asses for a couple plays. The only guy held accountable for **CENSORED**ty play so far this season is Geno Hayes. Rah going on the radio and saying guys stood up in film study and took the blame is accountability just shows that things wont change.

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#40 : November 15, 2011, 08:45:05 AM

One would think vets like Spurlock and Sammie would see more time, not less, with the struggles on offense.  Go figure. 

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#41 : November 15, 2011, 08:53:21 AM

This is going to be a long post, but I will try to make it as brief as possible.

Primarily, the idea that a team needs a #1 WR to me is an overrated part of the NFL for a variety of reasons.  Given how pass happy the league is, the value of a #1 WR diminishes as more WR's are put on the field.  Basically the more WR's on the field it is harder for a defense to shut down a single WR.  When most teams ran pro sets back in the day, two WR's was the norm, thus it was imperative to have two quality WR's that could beat jams.  Especially, when going into max protect, which is why you need two smaller,shifty guys.  Olson wants to run a pro set style offense (I formation) but he doesn't have the personnel to do it on the offensive line, QB, RB, or at WR.  Specifically, as I mentioned above you need WR's that are shifty that can beat jams one on one.  Furthermore, Olson misunderstands the original spirit of the Jon Gruden offense.  While Gruden's offense was oriented with a lot of I formations, he favored three WR sets for a reason.  Because of the larger bodied WR's it would create mismatches against a LB, nickel CB, safety etc, and it is HARD to jam the slot guy where most of the mismatches happen in a Gruden oriented offense.  Gruden had to resort back to two WR offense because the LT play was abysmal, and he had to protect the QB, but doing so the offense suffered.  If it were not for Galloway it would have been really bad, but the offense chugged forward.

Based on what I have seen Spurlock needs to be on the field more as a flanker or split end, and Briscoe as well.  Mike Williams ideally is a slot guy and rotate with Parker for that.  Sammie is the ideal #4 WR in four wide formations because he can locate zone soft spots.  Benn is your deep threat decoy, or post/go route guy. 

You can't have MW on the field so much if Olson insists on so many two WR sets as MW doesn't have the nimbleness to beat jams, or speed to generate separation.  He isn't Joey Galloway that can threaten with speed, so don't put him in situations like this.

Good analysis. I want to add the past couple of years we have been using players incorrectly. I remember when Josh Johnson was a QB they tried to make him a pocket passer when he isn't one. Last year they tried to make McCoy a DE. This year we have a back that can average five yards a carry and they only give him the ball ten times. Not to mention practically every every formation looks the same.  Everyone knows if Blount is on the field, there is 90% chance we are running. On pass plays our receivers don't go past 15 yards of the LOS and Freeman seems interested to throw passes less than 10 yards down field. I don't think AJ Green would be able to shine in this style of offense. We are restricting players from their talent.

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#42 : November 15, 2011, 08:54:47 AM

I think we are seeing in Mike Williams what they saw in Syracuse.  He lacks desire.  That's part of what caused the issues in school and what's going to create issues here.  Dominik and Morris were applauded for drafting him, but I think it's going to turn into another Michael Clayton issue.  I think they should draft Blackmon in the first.

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#43 : November 15, 2011, 08:56:54 AM

I like to watch games with different people broadcasting. I don't remember who did Sunday's game but he was very critical of our WR not getting open. I would love to see the game from a wide view to see what our WR are doing as Freeman is standing in the pocket.

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#44 : November 15, 2011, 09:01:18 AM

This is going to be a long post, but I will try to make it as brief as possible.

Primarily, the idea that a team needs a #1 WR to me is an overrated part of the NFL for a variety of reasons.  Given how pass happy the league is, the value of a #1 WR diminishes as more WR's are put on the field.  Basically the more WR's on the field it is harder for a defense to shut down a single WR.  When most teams ran pro sets back in the day, two WR's was the norm, thus it was imperative to have two quality WR's that could beat jams.  Especially, when going into max protect, which is why you need two smaller,shifty guys.  Olson wants to run a pro set style offense (I formation) but he doesn't have the personnel to do it on the offensive line, QB, RB, or at WR.  Specifically, as I mentioned above you need WR's that are shifty that can beat jams one on one.  Furthermore, Olson misunderstands the original spirit of the Jon Gruden offense.  While Gruden's offense was oriented with a lot of I formations, he favored three WR sets for a reason.  Because of the larger bodied WR's it would create mismatches against a LB, nickel CB, safety etc, and it is HARD to jam the slot guy where most of the mismatches happen in a Gruden oriented offense.  Gruden had to resort back to two WR offense because the LT play was abysmal, and he had to protect the QB, but doing so the offense suffered.  If it were not for Galloway it would have been really bad, but the offense chugged forward.

Based on what I have seen Spurlock needs to be on the field more as a flanker or split end, and Briscoe as well.  Mike Williams ideally is a slot guy and rotate with Parker for that.  Sammie is the ideal #4 WR in four wide formations because he can locate zone soft spots.  Benn is your deep threat decoy, or post/go route guy. 

You can't have MW on the field so much if Olson insists on so many two WR sets as MW doesn't have the nimbleness to beat jams, or speed to generate separation.  He isn't Joey Galloway that can threaten with speed, so don't put him in situations like this.

Good analysis. I want to add the past couple of years we have been using players incorrectly. I remember when Josh Johnson was a QB they tried to make him a pocket passer when he isn't one. Last year they tried to make McCoy a DE. This year we have a back that can average five yards a carry and they only give him the ball ten times. Not to mention practically every every formation looks the same.  Everyone knows if Blount is on the field, there is 90% chance we are running. On pass plays our receivers don't go past 15 yards of the LOS and Freeman seems interested to throw passes less than 10 yards down field. I don't think AJ Green would be able to shine in this style of offense. We are restricting players from their talent.

Yes AJ Green is used in the intermediate areas of the field this year, so adding a player of that caliber will not really change Olson's offensive scheme, play calling flow, or Freeman's will to throw into intermediate areas.  The only solid argument for procuring a #1 WR I can think of is if Olson insists on this pass happy approach with only two WR's on the field most of the time. 
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