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michael89156

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: December 26, 2011, 03:55:40 PM

DECEMBER 26, 2011


Morris suggests there's more to the Bucs' poor season than coaching


Bucs coach Raheem Morris, with his team mired in a nine-game losing streak, made it clear Monday he doesn't believe he deserves to be fired.
 
I think I answered this question a couple weeks ago, I will never fire myself,'' Morris said. "You dont go from being a Coach of the Year candidate to being the worst coach in the league to get fired within a year. Its about us. Its a little bit of everything.
 
I believe in my guys. I believe in the system. I believe in the program. I believe in what we do and everybody in this building. Its a buying in factor. Either you buy in or you dont and we want to build this thing young and we want to develop a team that goes out and wins and wins consistently.''
 
 
 
Morris said that general manager Mark Dominik, himself and the Glazer family which owns the Bucs all bought in to the plan of building with the youngest team in the NFL the past two seasons. He referenced the decision not to re-sign free agent middle linebacker Barrett Ruud in order to start rookie middle linebacker Mason Foster, a third-round pick from Washington.
 
 
 
"We made a collective agreement to go young when we took over this program,'' Morris said. "That's something we wanted to do. In order to upgrade in certain positions, sometimes you got to get worse before you get better. Going out and getting a young middle linebacker was something we decided to do and we did it. Whether or not at the beginning we both were on the same page or all four of us were on the same page, including the Glazers, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, we decided to do it and we went out and did it.''   
 
 
 
The Bucs (4-11) are last in the league in scoring defense, allowing 29.9 points per game under Morris, who also serves as defensive coordinator. But a bigger factor in their losing spiral have been turnovers. The Bucs have had 28 giveaways during their nine-game losing streak.
 
 
 
Morris says in many cases it's the result of players going 'outside the box,' to make plays. He cited an example of tight end Kellen Winslow trying to leap over defenders and losing a fumble in the Bucs' 48-16 loss at Carolina Saturday.
 
 
 
What bothers Morris is that fact that the Bucs have not even been competitive in many games this season. Tampa Bay has has allowed 31 or more points in six of its past seven games and have been outscored by an average of 18.3 points per game.
 
 
 
"No question. Bingo. You got me. I can't even talk my way around this one,'' Morris said. "That is the most frustrating thing for me at this point, but it happens because people go outside the box and try to make plays that are just not there in order to get their football team or basketball team or hockey team to win. You've got to go play within the system and make the plays that technique and opportunity allow you to make. Once you do those things, it's just like the year before.
 
 
 
"But until you realize that, until you settle down and stop pushing the panic button, so to speak, and jumping outside of your zone, or jumping outside of your gap, or trying to do something bigger than it really is -- leap a man in open grass -- and all those things are part of it. Kellen didn't jump over that guy trying to fumble. He tried to make a play outside of his realm, outside of the box in order to get his football team to win. I'm not going to bash him for that. But that's a teach-able moment even for a guy like Kellen Winslow.''
 
 
 
Morris said in Winslow's case, he was trying to do too much to win the game for the head coach.
 
 
 
"There's no question. I mean there's no doubt,'' Morris said. "Kellen Winslow is a prime example of, "I'm going to win this game despite anything around me for Raheem.' There's no doubt in my mind that he was thinking that when he jumped over that guy. That was not a selfish act...he was trying to score.'
 
 
 
"They've been like that. I know, "Have you lost them?' All that garbage talk, there's no doubt in my mind none of that stuff is even close because of the 61 men in that room during our team meeting when I actually can call guys out and tell them what to do and what not to do...I understand and they've got to understand that, too.''



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Posted by Rick Stroud at 12:39:53 pm on December 26, 2011

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#1 : December 26, 2011, 03:58:13 PM

I dont share the same hatred for Kellen Winslow that many on this board seem to have

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#2 : December 26, 2011, 04:04:11 PM

http://www.pewterreport.com/Boards/index.php/topic,1288961.0.html







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#3 : December 26, 2011, 04:11:26 PM

I dont share the same hatred for Kellen Winslow that many on this board seem to have

i think it comes from a few reasons...we gave up a lot for him, we gave him a big contract, and he has only played average to good.  he is one dimensional, and even at that he is limited.   he is probably relied on too much which causes some ill-will.  and he always gets caught with PI's.

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#4 : December 26, 2011, 04:12:50 PM

I dont share the same hatred for Kellen Winslow that many on this board seem to have


me neither. Some people just have a problem with anyone who has an attitude. They see a someone acting different than themselves and automatically start to seperate themselves. Winslow was playing angry and a bunch of people said it was uncalled for yet tyhe blast the next player for not playing physical enough.  They see Freeman is forcing the ball to Winslow and assume that its because Winslow is demanding the ball. They see a guy who been a great teammate and player since coming here and then want to cast him off because he shoved someone off of him or because he was the intended reciever on an INT.

They guys has done nothing but play his butt off and has been a good teammate but people will hate on him for the dumbest of reasons. Im guessing the biggest underlying factor is his support of Raheem and not his play on the field.



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#5 : December 26, 2011, 04:18:03 PM

I dont share the same hatred for Kellen Winslow that many on this board seem to have

i think it comes from a few reasons...we gave up a lot for him, we gave him a big contract, and he has only played average to good.  he is one dimensional, and even at that he is limited.   he is probably relied on too much which causes some ill-will.  and he always gets caught with PI's.

a 2nd and a 5th is not a lot for a solid pass catching TE. Especially for a young QB.

Does anyone honestly think a 2nd and a 5th is too much for 200+ receptions and 2000+ yards over 3 seasons? What 2nd round pick have the Bucs that kind of production out of on offense in the past 20 years? how many TEs are in that same class over the past 3 years? A handful of guys who are already considered better?


Winslow stats vs NFL TEs

2011- 7th in rec... 9th in yards
2010- 7th in rec... 6th in yards
2009- 6th in rec... 6th in yards

So what youre saying is a 2nd and a 5th is too much for a TE that only gets out performed by the top 5 at his position any given year? People must have a hard time remembering the role TEs play because it seems like they want Winslow to be the #1 TE in the NFL every single year.
: December 26, 2011, 04:26:36 PM tatmanfish



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#6 : December 26, 2011, 04:23:27 PM

I just can't get over them not resigning Ruud and Caddy. You don't get young just for the sake of getting young, especially if it makes you a worse team. Does anybody wanna argue that if we had Ruud and Caddy this year we would be a worse team? This is just another reason why Dominik and Morris should be sent packing on Monday.

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#7 : December 26, 2011, 04:28:19 PM

I just can't get over them not resigning Ruud and Caddy. You don't get young just for the sake of getting young, especially if it makes you a worse team. Does anybody wanna argue that if we had Ruud and Caddy this year we would be a worse team? This is just another reason why Dominik and Morris should be sent packing on Monday.

Ruud has been replaced by a rookie in Tennessee and Cadi didnt make it through year yet again. Does anyone want to argue this team would have more wins with Ruud and Cadi? Of course not because their effects on this team were marginal.



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#8 : December 26, 2011, 04:30:33 PM

I dont share the same hatred for Kellen Winslow that many on this board seem to have

i think it comes from a few reasons...we gave up a lot for him, we gave him a big contract, and he has only played average to good.  he is one dimensional, and even at that he is limited.   he is probably relied on too much which causes some ill-will.  and he always gets caught with PI's.

a 2nd and a 5th is not a lot for a solid pass catching TE. Especially for a young QB.

Does anyone honestly think a 2nd and a 5th is too much for 200+ receptions and 2000+ yards over 3 seasons? What 2nd round pick have the Bucs that kind of production out of on offense in the past 20 years? how many TEs are in that same class over the past 3 years? A handful of guys who are already considered better?

What is at all solid about Winslow though?  He needs to push off to get open and he's not one of these Gronkowski's, Gates or Finley's who is a matchup nightmare. Heck, watch Jimmy Graham tonight and see what he does for the Saints.   Look at the following TEs and their draft round and tell me we wouldn't be a better football team with one of them instead of K2

Rob Gronkowski - 2nd Rd
Jimmy Graham - 3rd Rd
Aaron Hernandez - 4th Rd
Jermichael Finley - 3rd Rd

Everyone of these guys is a more explosive, more complete TE than Winslow and all would've come at a cheaper price


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#9 : December 26, 2011, 04:42:57 PM

I dont share the same hatred for Kellen Winslow that many on this board seem to have

i think it comes from a few reasons...we gave up a lot for him, we gave him a big contract, and he has only played average to good.  he is one dimensional, and even at that he is limited.   he is probably relied on too much which causes some ill-will.  and he always gets caught with PI's.

a 2nd and a 5th is not a lot for a solid pass catching TE. Especially for a young QB.

Does anyone honestly think a 2nd and a 5th is too much for 200+ receptions and 2000+ yards over 3 seasons? What 2nd round pick have the Bucs that kind of production out of on offense in the past 20 years? how many TEs are in that same class over the past 3 years? A handful of guys who are already considered better?

What is at all solid about Winslow though?  He needs to push off to get open and he's not one of these Gronkowski's, Gates or Finley's who is a matchup nightmare. Heck, watch Jimmy Graham tonight and see what he does for the Saints.   Look at the following TEs and their draft round and tell me we wouldn't be a better football team with one of them instead of K2

Rob Gronkowski - 2nd Rd
Jimmy Graham - 3rd Rd
Aaron Hernandez - 4th Rd
Jermichael Finley - 3rd Rd

Everyone of these guys is a more explosive, more complete TE than Winslow and all would've come at a cheaper price

so you listed a handful of guys....awesome. Pretty sure weve established only a handful of guys have put up better numbers each of the last 3 years. If you going to take draft picks catching passes from guys named Brees, Rodgers, or Brady you might want to mention the fact they are catching ball for the best QBs in the game for some of the best play callers in the game

So just to be sure, your saying Winslow has to be the best TE in the NFL to justify what the Bucs gave up for him. Those are mighty unrealistic expectations dont you think?



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#10 : December 26, 2011, 04:48:10 PM

I just can't get over them not resigning Ruud and Caddy. You don't get young just for the sake of getting young, especially if it makes you a worse team. Does anybody wanna argue that if we had Ruud and Caddy this year we would be a worse team? This is just another reason why Dominik and Morris should be sent packing on Monday.

Ruud has been replaced by a rookie in Tennessee and Cadi didnt make it through year yet again. Does anyone want to argue this team would have more wins with Ruud and Cadi? Of course not because their effects on this team were marginal.

Ruud was placed on IR, he wasn't replaced. Caddy played through 16 games the last two years, granted he did get injured this year, but he came back. Foster was a downgrade over Ruud and our defense showed it this year. Go ahead and and say Madu or Graham is a better player than Caddy.

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#11 : December 26, 2011, 04:53:51 PM

I just can't get over them not resigning Ruud and Caddy. You don't get young just for the sake of getting young, especially if it makes you a worse team. Does anybody wanna argue that if we had Ruud and Caddy this year we would be a worse team? This is just another reason why Dominik and Morris should be sent packing on Monday.

Ruud has been replaced by a rookie in Tennessee and Cadi didnt make it through year yet again. Does anyone want to argue this team would have more wins with Ruud and Cadi? Of course not because their effects on this team were marginal.

Ruud was placed on IR, he wasn't replaced. Caddy played through 16 games the last two years, granted he did get injured this year, but he came back. Foster was a downgrade over Ruud and our defense showed it this year. Go ahead and and say Madu or Graham is a better player than Caddy.

Graham is a MUCH better player than caddy and your mancrush for Ruud is disgusting.


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#12 : December 26, 2011, 04:57:01 PM

I just can't get over them not resigning Ruud and Caddy. You don't get young just for the sake of getting young, especially if it makes you a worse team. Does anybody wanna argue that if we had Ruud and Caddy this year we would be a worse team? This is just another reason why Dominik and Morris should be sent packing on Monday.

Ruud has been replaced by a rookie in Tennessee and Cadi didnt make it through year yet again. Does anyone want to argue this team would have more wins with Ruud and Cadi? Of course not because their effects on this team were marginal.

Absolutely Ruud and Caddy would have helped this team.   The defense was in total disarray all year without their leader Ruud calling the defenses.   The Bucs don't have the worst defense in the history of the franchise for nothing.   They were better last year and did nothing but improve at every position other than middle linebacker, but they fell apart.   If that doesn't open your eyes to the fact that Ruud was important, I feel sorry for you.   He was new to the Titans D, the Titans have more vets on that D and their rookie is superior to Foster so they can better afford to go without him and didn't fall apart when he went on IR.    The Bucs desperately needed him this year.

Caddy would have been a huge help in protecting Freeman and bailing him out on 3rd down.    I think Freeman's regression is greatly because Caddy was not there.       Who is to say that Caddy would have gotten hurt had he stayed here?
: December 26, 2011, 05:00:20 PM JavaRay


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#13 : December 26, 2011, 05:07:24 PM

I just can't get over them not resigning Ruud and Caddy. You don't get young just for the sake of getting young, especially if it makes you a worse team. Does anybody wanna argue that if we had Ruud and Caddy this year we would be a worse team? This is just another reason why Dominik and Morris should be sent packing on Monday.

Ruud has been replaced by a rookie in Tennessee and Cadi didnt make it through year yet again. Does anyone want to argue this team would have more wins with Ruud and Cadi? Of course not because their effects on this team were marginal.

Absolutely Ruud and Caddy would have helped this team.   The defense was in total disarray all year without their leader Ruud calling the defenses.   The Bucs don't have the worst defense in the history of the franchise for nothing.   They were better last year and did nothing but improve at every position other than middle linebacker, but they fell apart.   If that doesn't open your eyes to the fact that Ruud was important, I feel sorry for you.   He was new to the Titans D, the Titans have more vets on that D and their rookie is superior to Foster so they can better afford to go without him and didn't fall apart when he went on IR.    The Bucs desperately needed him this year.

Caddy would have been a huge help in protecting Freeman and bailing him out on 3rd down.    I think Freeman's regression is greatly because Caddy was not there.      Who is to say that Caddy would have gotten hurt had he stayed here?




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#14 : December 26, 2011, 05:08:57 PM

a 2nd and a 5th is not a lot for a solid pass catching TE. Especially for a young QB.

Does anyone honestly think a 2nd and a 5th is too much for 200+ receptions and 2000+ yards over 3 seasons? What 2nd round pick have the Bucs that kind of production out of on offense in the past 20 years? how many TEs are in that same class over the past 3 years? A handful of guys who are already considered better?

Winslow stats vs NFL TEs

2011- 7th in rec... 9th in yards
2010- 7th in rec... 6th in yards
2009- 6th in rec... 6th in yards

So what youre saying is a 2nd and a 5th is too much for a TE that only gets out performed by the top 5 at his position any given year? People must have a hard time remembering the role TEs play because it seems like they want Winslow to be the #1 TE in the NFL every single year.

im saying a 2nd and 5th is a lot.  im not saying its too much.  but do teams gameplan against KW2?  do teams fear him?  i think he is a solid player, but at the same time i dont think he is special.  if he was a blocker and put up those numbers great.  if he was the veteran leadership that everyone clamors for then great.  but he is a finesse TE without speed.

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