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The Franchi5e

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#90 : December 30, 2011, 10:12:43 PM

Who do you guys think the mystery player being quoted is?

When you think about what was said, unless the guy was speaking in third person...it has to be one of the secondary players that's been in the league for a little bit. Seeing as how Ronde and Talib have allegiance to Raheem, Sean Jones could give a damn at this point since he's on his last year, and EJ Biggers and Myron Lewis probably don't even know that we run a 4-3...it has to be Tanard Jackson IMO. Only other players it could be are maybe Larry Asante or Ahmad Black but they don't even get enough playing time to talk like this player did.
Tanard isn't loyal to Raheem?

I doubt that

The player speaks about the defensive line and names all of the players in the front 7 that they could play a 3-4 with. So unless the guy was speaking in third person it has to be somebody in the secondary. Unless its a backup like Hayward, Okam or Haynesworth....Okam is the only one of them that would be decent in a 3-4. Ronde and Talib would never say anything Raheem related, and Biggers and Lewis are retards. Sean Jones is gone after this year, so that really only leaves Tanard as the only guy competent enough to speak on this. A sleeper candidate for me is Cody Grimm. I haven't seen the kid since he went down. He might have just been hanging around the facilities and this guy approached him off the record.

The Anti-Java

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#91 : December 30, 2011, 10:16:00 PM

Who do you guys think the mystery player being quoted is?

When you think about what was said, unless the guy was speaking in third person...it has to be one of the secondary players that's been in the league for a little bit. Seeing as how Ronde and Talib have allegiance to Raheem, Sean Jones could give a damn at this point since he's on his last year, and EJ Biggers and Myron Lewis probably don't even know that we run a 4-3...it has to be Tanard Jackson IMO. Only other players it could be are maybe Larry Asante or Ahmad Black but they don't even get enough playing time to talk like this player did.
Tanard isn't loyal to Raheem?

I doubt that

The player speaks about the defensive line and names all of the players in the front 7 that they could play a 3-4 with. So unless the guy was speaking in third person it has to be somebody in the secondary. Unless its a backup like Hayward, Okam or Haynesworth....Okam is the only one of them that would be decent in a 3-4. Ronde and Talib would never say anything Raheem related, and Biggers and Lewis are retards. Sean Jones is gone after this year, so that really only leaves Tanard as the only guy competent enough to speak on this. A sleeper candidate for me is Cody Grimm. I haven't seen the kid since he went down. He might have just been hanging around the facilities and this guy approached him off the record.



Ya I was thinking the same. Had to be a secondary guy.   My guess would be Tanard.


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PewterReportMC....
\\\\\\\"Java, do you understand this a perfect example of why people beg me to suspend or ban you on a daily basis? Are you actually trying to make a point? Seriously what is the reason for even commenting. In fact why do you even bother coming to the boards? What happened to the intelligent poster from years ago?  A real shame. Like the Bucs yesterday, a wasted effort.\\\\\\\"

CBWx2

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#92 : December 31, 2011, 12:46:49 AM

If the scheme is so good.....why have then been historically bad?  They were 27th last year in yds allowed.  30th, 27th, and 31st....bad, bad, and worse.

Morris himself said that he had to scale his own defenses back because it may have been too much for the young players.  The coach even says as much.  The guy has never coached a decent defense yet in his career.  Uhhhhh.....you think maybe he's just not good?

And ONE decent stat vs how many bad stats?  Rush defense?  Pass defense?  Yds per rush?  ETC ETC ETC.   You find ONE stat IN ONE SEASON and that is going to go against TEN bad ones?  Seriously bud....you have an ulterior motive....it's obvious.

So one stat isn't enough? Okay, cool. The Bucs were the 7th ranked defense in the NFL against the pass in 2010 as well as the 9th ranked defense in points allowed. That's top 10 in two categories. Do those facts change your opinion at all? Or perhaps are you the one with the ulterior motive?

Oh, wait. There's more. The Bucs were ranked 10th in the NFL in takeaways in 2010. So make that three defensive categories with a top 10 ranking. But I'm the one ignoring the facts.  ::)
: December 31, 2011, 12:51:42 AM CBWx2


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#93 : December 31, 2011, 12:51:22 AM

Who do you guys think the mystery player being quoted is?

When you think about what was said, unless the guy was speaking in third person...it has to be one of the secondary players that's been in the league for a little bit. Seeing as how Ronde and Talib have allegiance to Raheem, Sean Jones could give a damn at this point since he's on his last year, and EJ Biggers and Myron Lewis probably don't even know that we run a 4-3...it has to be Tanard Jackson IMO. Only other players it could be are maybe Larry Asante or Ahmad Black but they don't even get enough playing time to talk like this player did.
Tanard isn't loyal to Raheem?

I doubt that

The player speaks about the defensive line and names all of the players in the front 7 that they could play a 3-4 with. So unless the guy was speaking in third person it has to be somebody in the secondary. Unless its a backup like Hayward, Okam or Haynesworth....Okam is the only one of them that would be decent in a 3-4. Ronde and Talib would never say anything Raheem related, and Biggers and Lewis are retards. Sean Jones is gone after this year, so that really only leaves Tanard as the only guy competent enough to speak on this. A sleeper candidate for me is Cody Grimm. I haven't seen the kid since he went down. He might have just been hanging around the facilities and this guy approached him off the record.
Does Sean Jones think Sean Jones is gone next year?


Escobar06

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#94 : December 31, 2011, 02:34:05 AM

If the scheme is so good.....why have then been historically bad?  They were 27th last year in yds allowed.  30th, 27th, and 31st....bad, bad, and worse.

Morris himself said that he had to scale his own defenses back because it may have been too much for the young players.  The coach even says as much.  The guy has never coached a decent defense yet in his career.  Uhhhhh.....you think maybe he's just not good?

And ONE decent stat vs how many bad stats?  Rush defense?  Pass defense?  Yds per rush?  ETC ETC ETC.   You find ONE stat IN ONE SEASON and that is going to go against TEN bad ones?  Seriously bud....you have an ulterior motive....it's obvious.

So one stat isn't enough? Okay, cool. The Bucs were the 7th ranked defense in the NFL against the pass in 2010 as well as the 9th ranked defense in points allowed. That's top 10 in two categories. Do those facts change your opinion at all? Or perhaps are you the one with the ulterior motive?

Oh, wait. There's more. The Bucs were ranked 10th in the NFL in takeaways in 2010. So make that three defensive categories with a top 10 ranking. But I'm the one ignoring the facts.  ::)


The Bucs were the 7th ranked defense against the pass because teams opted to run against us more than pass. Our rush defense was ranked 28th in ypg. We were ranked 11th in fewest pass attempts against, and 20th in rushing attempts against. It's pretty clear that our pass defense was aided by the fact that teams chose to run against us the majority of the time. It also benefited from mostly average to poor pass offenses, below is where our opponents ranked in passing offense, and how many yards, in parenthesis, they had against us......the numbers to the right of the parenthesis represent the rushing yards we gave up in the game:

Cleveland - 29th (236) 104
Carolina - 32nd (159, 182) 119, 118
Pittsburgh - 14th (186) 201
Cincinnati - 13th (209) 149
New Orleans - 3rd (263, 199) 212, 106
St. Louis - 21st (124) 161
Arizona - 31st (296) 100
Atlanta - 15th (235, 205) 130, 85
San Fran - 18th (118) 71
Baltimore - 20th (257) 92
Washington - 8th (211) 188
Detroit -12th (252) 181
Seattle - 19th (84) 90

Offenses ranked 15th or higher in passing yards (8 games) averaged 220 passing yards per game against us, that would have been good for 18th in the league. In those eight games we gave up 156.5 rushing yards per game, that's good for 31st in the league. The lower ranked pass offenses, and our propensity to give up a lot of rushing yards are why our pass defense jumped to 7th in the league.


Regarding finishing 9th in points allowed, here is where our opponents ranked in terms of points scored per game,
in parenthesis next to the ranking is the amount of points that particular team scored against us:

Cleveland - 31st (14)
Carolina - 32nd (7,16)
Pittsburgh - 12th (38)
Cincinatti - 22nd (21)
New Orleans -  11th ( 31,13)
St. Louis - 26th - tied with Arizona (17)
Arizona - 26th (35)
Atlanta - 5th (27,28)
San Fran - 24th (0)
Baltimore - 16th (17)
Washington - 25th (16)
Detroit - 15th (23)
Seattle - 23rd (15)

We played six games against teams ranked 15th or higher in PPG, in those games our "9th ranked defense in points allowed" gave up an average of 26.6 ppg (that would have ranked 28th in the league), and we went a combined 1-5 in those games. If you take away the fluke season finale against the Saints we gave up an average of 29.4 ppg in the other five contests (that would have ranked dead last).

Outside of the top 15 we faced the 16th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th (x2), 31st, and 32nd (x2) ranked offenses. If you're still impressed by our "9th ranked" defense, you're a fool.


Edit: We also had the 2nd worse third down defense in the NFL, allowing opponents to gain a 1st down over 43 % of the time.
: December 31, 2011, 03:28:37 AM Escobar06

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#95 : December 31, 2011, 11:15:53 AM

If the scheme is so good.....why have then been historically bad?  They were 27th last year in yds allowed.  30th, 27th, and 31st....bad, bad, and worse.

Morris himself said that he had to scale his own defenses back because it may have been too much for the young players.  The coach even says as much.  The guy has never coached a decent defense yet in his career.  Uhhhhh.....you think maybe he's just not good?

And ONE decent stat vs how many bad stats?  Rush defense?  Pass defense?  Yds per rush?  ETC ETC ETC.   You find ONE stat IN ONE SEASON and that is going to go against TEN bad ones?  Seriously bud....you have an ulterior motive....it's obvious.

So one stat isn't enough? Okay, cool. The Bucs were the 7th ranked defense in the NFL against the pass in 2010 as well as the 9th ranked defense in points allowed. That's top 10 in two categories. Do those facts change your opinion at all? Or perhaps are you the one with the ulterior motive?

Oh, wait. There's more. The Bucs were ranked 10th in the NFL in takeaways in 2010. So make that three defensive categories with a top 10 ranking. But I'm the one ignoring the facts.  ::)


The Bucs were the 7th ranked defense against the pass because teams opted to run against us more than pass. Our rush defense was ranked 28th in ypg. We were ranked 11th in fewest pass attempts against, and 20th in rushing attempts against. It's pretty clear that our pass defense was aided by the fact that teams chose to run against us the majority of the time. It also benefited from mostly average to poor pass offenses, below is where our opponents ranked in passing offense, and how many yards, in parenthesis, they had against us......the numbers to the right of the parenthesis represent the rushing yards we gave up in the game:

Cleveland - 29th (236) 104
Carolina - 32nd (159, 182) 119, 118
Pittsburgh - 14th (186) 201
Cincinnati - 13th (209) 149
New Orleans - 3rd (263, 199) 212, 106
St. Louis - 21st (124) 161
Arizona - 31st (296) 100
Atlanta - 15th (235, 205) 130, 85
San Fran - 18th (118) 71
Baltimore - 20th (257) 92
Washington - 8th (211) 188
Detroit -12th (252) 181
Seattle - 19th (84) 90

Offenses ranked 15th or higher in passing yards (8 games) averaged 220 passing yards per game against us, that would have been good for 18th in the league. In those eight games we gave up 156.5 rushing yards per game, that's good for 31st in the league. The lower ranked pass offenses, and our propensity to give up a lot of rushing yards are why our pass defense jumped to 7th in the league.


Regarding finishing 9th in points allowed, here is where our opponents ranked in terms of points scored per game,
in parenthesis next to the ranking is the amount of points that particular team scored against us:

Cleveland - 31st (14)
Carolina - 32nd (7,16)
Pittsburgh - 12th (38)
Cincinatti - 22nd (21)
New Orleans -  11th ( 31,13)
St. Louis - 26th - tied with Arizona (17)
Arizona - 26th (35)
Atlanta - 5th (27,28)
San Fran - 24th (0)
Baltimore - 16th (17)
Washington - 25th (16)
Detroit - 15th (23)
Seattle - 23rd (15)

We played six games against teams ranked 15th or higher in PPG, in those games our "9th ranked defense in points allowed" gave up an average of 26.6 ppg (that would have ranked 28th in the league), and we went a combined 1-5 in those games. If you take away the fluke season finale against the Saints we gave up an average of 29.4 ppg in the other five contests (that would have ranked dead last).

Outside of the top 15 we faced the 16th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th (x2), 31st, and 32nd (x2) ranked offenses. If you're still impressed by our "9th ranked" defense, you're a fool.


Edit: We also had the 2nd worse third down defense in the NFL, allowing opponents to gain a 1st down over 43 % of the time.

Cool. Now do that for this season.


Escobar06

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#96 : December 31, 2011, 04:16:52 PM

There's no need to, my point has been proven. You talked up those stats and accused the other poster of "ignoring facts", when in reality you were the one ignoring facts. Throwing out random stats without looking into how they were achieved, making yourself look foolish..again. My post illustrates quite nicely what the more educated fans around here already knew, our record and practically any positive stat this team achieved last year were due to a laughably weak schedule, nothing more.

The Franchi5e

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#97 : December 31, 2011, 06:17:53 PM

Who do you guys think the mystery player being quoted is?

When you think about what was said, unless the guy was speaking in third person...it has to be one of the secondary players that's been in the league for a little bit. Seeing as how Ronde and Talib have allegiance to Raheem, Sean Jones could give a damn at this point since he's on his last year, and EJ Biggers and Myron Lewis probably don't even know that we run a 4-3...it has to be Tanard Jackson IMO. Only other players it could be are maybe Larry Asante or Ahmad Black but they don't even get enough playing time to talk like this player did.
Tanard isn't loyal to Raheem?

I doubt that

The player speaks about the defensive line and names all of the players in the front 7 that they could play a 3-4 with. So unless the guy was speaking in third person it has to be somebody in the secondary. Unless its a backup like Hayward, Okam or Haynesworth....Okam is the only one of them that would be decent in a 3-4. Ronde and Talib would never say anything Raheem related, and Biggers and Lewis are retards. Sean Jones is gone after this year, so that really only leaves Tanard as the only guy competent enough to speak on this. A sleeper candidate for me is Cody Grimm. I haven't seen the kid since he went down. He might have just been hanging around the facilities and this guy approached him off the record.
Does Sean Jones think Sean Jones is gone next year?

Lol he's playing like it.

bucinnj

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#98 : December 31, 2011, 06:49:25 PM


The Bucs were the 7th ranked defense against the pass because teams opted to run against us more than pass. Our rush defense was ranked 28th in ypg. We were ranked 11th in fewest pass attempts against, and 20th in rushing attempts against. It's pretty clear that our pass defense was aided by the fact that teams chose to run against us the majority of the time. It also benefited from mostly average to poor pass offenses, below is where our opponents ranked in passing offense, and how many yards, in parenthesis, they had against us......the numbers to the right of the parenthesis represent the rushing yards we gave up in the game:


Agreed, agreed, agreed!  Without even needing the benefit of the stats, we could see this playing out last season by just watching the games. 
Opposing teams ran the ball because they knew the Bucs couldn't stop them.
The reason that the defense wasn't criticized as much last season is because the Bucs won 10 games.

Turn the page.

Escobar06

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#99 : December 31, 2011, 10:11:44 PM


The Bucs were the 7th ranked defense against the pass because teams opted to run against us more than pass. Our rush defense was ranked 28th in ypg. We were ranked 11th in fewest pass attempts against, and 20th in rushing attempts against. It's pretty clear that our pass defense was aided by the fact that teams chose to run against us the majority of the time. It also benefited from mostly average to poor pass offenses, below is where our opponents ranked in passing offense, and how many yards, in parenthesis, they had against us......the numbers to the right of the parenthesis represent the rushing yards we gave up in the game:


Agreed, agreed, agreed!  Without even needing the benefit of the stats, we could see this playing out last season by just watching the games
Opposing teams ran the ball because they knew the Bucs couldn't stop them.
The reason that the defense wasn't criticized as much last season is because the Bucs won 10 games.


Well, SOME can, others refuse to accept it, or argue against it for no other reason than to start an argument.

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#100 : January 01, 2012, 01:25:42 PM


The Bucs were the 7th ranked defense against the pass because teams opted to run against us more than pass. Our rush defense was ranked 28th in ypg. We were ranked 11th in fewest pass attempts against, and 20th in rushing attempts against. It's pretty clear that our pass defense was aided by the fact that teams chose to run against us the majority of the time. It also benefited from mostly average to poor pass offenses, below is where our opponents ranked in passing offense, and how many yards, in parenthesis, they had against us......the numbers to the right of the parenthesis represent the rushing yards we gave up in the game:


Agreed, agreed, agreed!  Without even needing the benefit of the stats, we could see this playing out last season by just watching the games
Opposing teams ran the ball because they knew the Bucs couldn't stop them.
The reason that the defense wasn't criticized as much last season is because the Bucs won 10 games.


Well, SOME can, others refuse to accept it, or argue against it for no other reason than to start an argument.

So teams ran more because they could?

Cleveland - 38 passing attempts, 23 rushing attempts
Carolina - 58 passing attempts, 64 rushing attempts
Pittsburgh - 17 passing attempts, 32 rushing attempts
Cincinnati - 36 passing attempts, 28 rushing attempts
New Orleans - 73 passing attempts, 54 rushing attempts
St. Louis - 26 passing attempts, 32 rushing attempts
Arizona - 40 passing attempts, 23 rushing attempts
Atlanta - 72 passing attempts, 60 rushing attempts
San Fran - 31 passing attempts, 18 rushing attempts
Baltimore - 35 passing attempts, 26 rushing attempts
Washington - 35 passing attempts, 28 rushing attempts
Detroit - 38 passing attempts, 28 rushing attempts
Seattle - 22 passing attempts, 28 rushing attempts

Teams threw the ball against us 521 times, ran the ball 444 times. That means 54% of the plays ran against us were passing plays. Only 4 teams ran the ball more than they passed it against us. Of those 4 teams, we beat three.

So now we know that teams didn't run more overall against us, so perhaps they ran the ball against us more than they would another opponent? That would be the other logical conclusion to draw from your argument, correct? So lets see...

Cleveland - 38 passing attempts, 23 rushing attempts (478, 413)
Carolina - 58 passing attempts, 64 rushing attempts (484, 428)
Pittsburgh - 17 passing attempts, 32 rushing attempts (479, 471)
Cincinnati - 36 passing attempts, 28 rushing attempts (590, 428)
New Orleans - 73 passing attempts, 54 rushing attempts (661, 380)
St. Louis - 26 passing attempts, 32 rushing attempts (590, 429)
Arizona - 40 passing attempts, 23 rushing attempts (561, 320)
Atlanta - 72 passing attempts, 60 rushing attempts (577, 497)
San Fran - 31 passing attempts, 18 rushing attempts (500, 401)
Baltimore - 35 passing attempts, 26 rushing attempts (491, 487)
Washington - 35 passing attempts, 28 rushing attempts (605, 351)
Detroit - 38 passing attempts, 28 rushing attempts (633, 404)
Seattle - 22 passing attempts, 28 rushing attempts (544, 385)

In the parenthesis, I have listed each team's season totals of pass attempts (first number), and rushing attempts (second number). The total for all opponents the Bucs faced in 2010 was 7193 pass attempts, 5394 rushing attempts, 12587 total plays ran. These teams threw the ball 57% of the time on the season, and 54% of the time on the Buccaneers, a differential of 3%. To put that in perspective, that means that these teams ran the ball a combined 29 times more against the Buccaneers than they did their other opponents. Over the span of 16 games, that averages out to a whopping 1.8 extra running plays a game.

So your argument has been destroyed by the facts. Are you willing to admit your bias yet? Or do I need to continue?

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