2012 Tampa Bay Rays

[olafberserker]

I didn't see it live either, but saw replay after replay where the left field ump didn't make the out signal with his arm in the air until the ball almost hit the ground.

that's what I'm reading as well now that I have read some more.  But like I said, worse case scenario the mechanics weren't as good as they could have been.  The right call was made and the runners moved up anyway so that didn't effect the play.   You have to make sure that the infielder can get there with ordinary effort and as can be seen in the replays he could.  Umpire has to make sure before he makes that call.   It would have been much worse to call it earlier and be wrong.

[-ts]

Why is it the 3B umpire's call?   lol, You can disagree all you want, but it was the right call.   The rule is right there in black and white.

And by your black and white standard it is an incorrect call.

When the ball is about to land it is not an immediate call.

And it is an infield umpires call when it comes to an infield ruling.

Just like I don't expect the 3rd base ump to be calling balls and strikes. That umpire is there for fair/foul rulings, traps, and HR rulings. That's it.

[-ts]

I didn't see it live either, but saw replay after replay where the left field ump didn't make the out signal with his arm in the air until the ball almost hit the ground.

that's what I'm reading as well now that I have read some more.  But like I said, worse case scenario the mechanics weren't as good as they could have been.  The right call was made and the runners moved up anyway so that didn't effect the play.   You have to make sure that the infielder can get there with ordinary effort and as can be seen in the replays he could.  Umpire has to make sure before he makes that call.   It would have been much worse to call it earlier and be wrong.

An out doesn't effect it?

If an umpire has to wait that long to see how much effort is needed, then the rule shouldn't be an infield fly.

[olafberserker]

I just watched the replay he is talking about.

In no way shape or form IMO is that call immediately, the ball is 8-10 ft from hitting the ground when the umps hand goes up.

And again, I'm not a fan of an umpire in the outfield making an infield fly call when the 3rd base ump isn't making that call.

Immediately is when the umpire decides that the infielder can make the play with ordinary effort, but it really doesn't matter.   

3rd base umpire has other responsibilities, the LF umpire only has to watch for the catch.  That's why he can and should make the call if he can.  There's no doubt that it was an infield fly no matter who calls it.

[olafberserker]

Yes the LF umpire calling infield fly behind SS, in LF is exactly the same thing as a 3B umpire calling balls and strikes.  You're being ridiculous now.   The call was right, the SS was right there and easily could have made the catch if he didn't peel off.  The batter should have been out regardless of when it was signaled.   Are you a Braves fan or did you lose money?

[-ts]

I just watched the replay he is talking about.

In no way shape or form IMO is that call immediately, the ball is 8-10 ft from hitting the ground when the umps hand goes up.

And again, I'm not a fan of an umpire in the outfield making an infield fly call when the 3rd base ump isn't making that call.

Immediately is when the umpire decides that the infielder can make the play with ordinary effort, but it really doesn't matter.   

3rd base umpire has other responsibilities, the LF umpire only has to watch for the catch.  That's why he can and should make the call if he can.  There's no doubt that it was an infield fly no matter who calls it.

Huh? What's his responsibility on a pop up other than to determine that?

Like I said, if there is any doubt about a call, then a non-call is the correct call in this case.

But like I also said, I don't necessarily think it would've really changed the game, but we will never know.

[-ts]

Yes the LF umpire calling infield fly behind SS, in LF is exactly the same thing as a 3B umpire calling balls and strikes.  You're being ridiculous now.   The call was right, the SS was right there and easily could have made the catch if he didn't peel off.  The batter should have been out regardless of when it was signaled.   Are you a Braves fan or did you lose money?

Neither. The fact that the SS peeled off for the outfielder even more proves the call incorrect.

Also, I didn't mean it literally, just throwing out an extreme comparison.

I don't want a LF Ump,  deciding what is and isn't going on with the infield.

[olafberserker]

If you don't know what he is responsible for then how do you know who's call it is.   He's responsible for the runner on 2nd that would come to 3rd.   He probably wouldn't be responsible for that call if there wasn't a LF umpire.  It would have fallen to the 2B umpire most likely (not sure of the exact location of the ball on the field).   There is no doubt the call was right.  Your just questioning the timing which was irrelevant to the outcome.  It was definitely an infield fly by rule.

[olafberserker]

Yes the LF umpire calling infield fly behind SS, in LF is exactly the same thing as a 3B umpire calling balls and strikes.  You're being ridiculous now.   The call was right, the SS was right there and easily could have made the catch if he didn't peel off.  The batter should have been out regardless of when it was signaled.   Are you a Braves fan or did you lose money?

Neither. The fact that the SS peeled off for the outfielder even more proves the call incorrect.

lol, no it doesn't.  You clearly do not understand the rule.  It's there in black and white.

[-ts]

If you don't know what he is responsible for then how do you know who's call it is.   He's responsible for the runner on 2nd that would come to 3rd.   He probably wouldn't be responsible for that call if there wasn't a LF umpire.  It would have fallen to the 2B umpire most likely (not sure of the exact location of the ball on the field).   There is no doubt the call was right.  Your just questioning the timing which was irrelevant to the outcome.  It was definitely an infield fly by rule.

His 1st responsibility is an infield fly rule and then his focus is the runner considering that call effects the runner.

How can the timing be irrelevant, when the "black and white" you posted clearly states it is relevant?

Anyway, this is point less. This can be interpreted multiple ways. I will never agree, nor will the majority of others IMO.

[-ts]

Yes the LF umpire calling infield fly behind SS, in LF is exactly the same thing as a 3B umpire calling balls and strikes.  You're being ridiculous now.   The call was right, the SS was right there and easily could have made the catch if he didn't peel off.  The batter should have been out regardless of when it was signaled.   Are you a Braves fan or did you lose money?

Neither. The fact that the SS peeled off for the outfielder even more proves the call incorrect.

lol, no it doesn't.  You clearly do not understand the rule.  It's there in black and white.

If he peels off because the 2nd baseman is about to hit him, ok.

However when you are far enough out that the LFer is calling you off? Yeah that sounds like a black and white infield fly to me!

[olafberserker]

No it can't.   The rule says it is an infield fly if the infielder can get there with ordinary effort.   There is no doubt at all that the SS was there with ordinary effort so it is an infield fly and the batter is out.   The black and white says that it is to be called immediately when it becomes apparent.  If it was apparent at that point, then so be it.   You can agree, disagree, or whatever, but it was an infield fly and the call was right even if timing wasn't.

[olafberserker]

Yes the LF umpire calling infield fly behind SS, in LF is exactly the same thing as a 3B umpire calling balls and strikes.  You're being ridiculous now.   The call was right, the SS was right there and easily could have made the catch if he didn't peel off.  The batter should have been out regardless of when it was signaled.   Are you a Braves fan or did you lose money?

Neither. The fact that the SS peeled off for the outfielder even more proves the call incorrect.

lol, no it doesn't.  You clearly do not understand the rule.  It's there in black and white.

If he peels off because the 2nd baseman is about to hit him, ok.

However when you are far enough out that the LFer is calling you off? Yeah that sounds like a black and white infield fly to me!

the outfielder has nothing to do with it.  It wasn't an easy call in live action, that's why it took so long for an umpire to call it.   But at the end the call was right, no doubt about it.  Like I said, you don't understand the rule.  That's ok the TBS guys didn't understand it either.

[-ts]

Yeah, your right, the rest of the population that disagrees with you just doesn't understand it.

Please.

And again if it is so black and white. Why is it that if it wasn't called no one in the world would've **CENSORED**ed and moaned that it was a missed call?

[olafberserker]

Yeah, your right, the rest of the population that disagrees with you just doesn't understand it.

Please.

And again if it is so black and white. Why is it that if it wasn't called no one in the world would've **CENSORED**ed and moaned that it was a missed call?

Anyone that says that wasn't an infield fly either is biased or doesn't understand the rule.  Pretty simple.  If that is the rest of the population, then so be it.  How do you know what the reaction would have been if they didn't make the call?  I for one wouldn't have felt sorry for the Cards since they blew the play, but by rule the call was right.   I don't feel sorry for the Braves either.  They're the ones that kicked it around to the tune of 3 errors