Is Josh Freeman a franchise QB?

[Bucfan40]

Honestly tired of seeing his weapons crapped on. Blount is a 1,000 yard running back. Williams is a near 1000 yard receiver and 10 TD pass catcher. Briscoe put up monster numbers at Kansas. It begins and ends with the quarterback. He has to get the ball to guys to make plays and IMO, he's not that guy. He was a thrower last year and it worked. Defenses realized he can't read anything (3 years in, 2.5 as a starter, that's inexcusable). Fact is

Year 1: 3-6
Year 2: 10-6
Year 3: 4-12

17-24 as a starter
14-20 in college as a starter

In college

Year 1: 4-5
Year 2: 5-7 (started 4-2 ironically)
Year 3: 5-7 (started 4-2 again)

Dude isn't a winner. Pure and simple.

[Theoldbuc]

Honestly tired of seeing his weapons crapped on. Blount is a 1,000 yard running back. Williams is a near 1000 yard receiver and 10 TD pass catcher. Briscoe put up monster numbers at Kansas. It begins and ends with the quarterback. He has to get the ball to guys to make plays and IMO, he's not that guy. He was a thrower last year and it worked. Defenses realized he can't read anything (3 years in, 2.5 as a starter, that's inexcusable). Fact is

Year 1: 3-6
Year 2: 10-6
Year 3: 4-12

17-24 as a starter
14-20 in college as a starter

In college

Year 1: 4-5
Year 2: 5-7 (started 4-2 ironically)
Year 3: 5-7 (started 4-2 again)

Dude isn't a winner. Pure and simple.

John Lynch says he is, so I will go with that! John Lynch > Bucfan40

[dalbuc]

Can't put W/L on a QB. Dan Fouts is a just barely over 86-84-1 QB. That's not his fault. Those KSU teams were awful - and in fairness his inability to play well vs good teams not called Texas was part of it but so was a terrible defense.

What you can say is that 2010 was a hell of a year for a QB.  2011 was an awful year. It makes knowing what he is or isn't hard to say. It isn't about weapons or experience. He had the same weapons last year and he and they all had less experience. His play degraded badly this year. He wasn't seeing the field, he forced the ball (especially to K2), his footwork got bad and his accuracy (even last year) isn't elite level - he's not a Rodgers/Brees type laser tosser.

 He said he got overconfident off 2010 and was trying to make plays he couldn't make. I don't know why it took him 16 weeks to figure that out but so be it. You have to hope, because he's not going anywhere, that this offseason with better coaching that can correct some of the mechanical things and he can relax and not feel like he has to tie on the cape to win games.

[SunnyD]

Really eye opening statistics there ADW, thanks

[kjbugman]

Great Analysis on Freeman. Well Done.

[Bucfan40]

Can't put W/L on a QB. Dan Fouts is a just barely over 86-84-1 QB. That's not his fault. Those KSU teams were awful - and in fairness his inability to play well vs good teams not called Texas was part of it but so was a terrible defense.

What you can say is that 2010 was a hell of a year for a QB.  2011 was an awful year. It makes knowing what he is or isn't hard to say. It isn't about weapons or experience. He had the same weapons last year and he and they all had less experience. His play degraded badly this year. He wasn't seeing the field, he forced the ball (especially to K2), his footwork got bad and his accuracy (even last year) isn't elite level - he's not a Rodgers/Brees type laser tosser.

 He said he got overconfident off 2010 and was trying to make plays he couldn't make. I don't know why it took him 16 weeks to figure that out but so be it. You have to hope, because he's not going anywhere, that this offseason with better coaching that can correct some of the mechanical things and he can relax and not feel like he has to tie on the cape to win games.

This is fair, however I think there is something that needs to be said about winning. This wasn't a situation where Freeman was lighting the world on fire and his teammates let him down. Freeman was incredibly mediocre as well in college. And that's with Jordy Nelson to throw to.

[JavaRay]

Honestly tired of seeing his weapons crapped on. Blount is a 1,000 yard running back. Williams is a near 1000 yard receiver and 10 TD pass catcher. Briscoe put up monster numbers at Kansas. It begins and ends with the quarterback. He has to get the ball to guys to make plays and IMO, he's not that guy. He was a thrower last year and it worked. Defenses realized he can't read anything (3 years in, 2.5 as a starter, that's inexcusable). Fact is

Year 1: 3-6
Year 2: 10-6
Year 3: 4-12

17-24 as a starter
14-20 in college as a starter

In college

Year 1: 4-5
Year 2: 5-7 (started 4-2 ironically)
Year 3: 5-7 (started 4-2 again)

Dude isn't a winner. Pure and simple.

John Lynch says he is, so I will go with that! John Lynch > Bucfan40

John Lynch said that Josh Johnson could develop into a franchise QB too.

[Bucfan40]

Honestly tired of seeing his weapons crapped on. Blount is a 1,000 yard running back. Williams is a near 1000 yard receiver and 10 TD pass catcher. Briscoe put up monster numbers at Kansas. It begins and ends with the quarterback. He has to get the ball to guys to make plays and IMO, he's not that guy. He was a thrower last year and it worked. Defenses realized he can't read anything (3 years in, 2.5 as a starter, that's inexcusable). Fact is

Year 1: 3-6
Year 2: 10-6
Year 3: 4-12

17-24 as a starter
14-20 in college as a starter

In college

Year 1: 4-5
Year 2: 5-7 (started 4-2 ironically)
Year 3: 5-7 (started 4-2 again)

Dude isn't a winner. Pure and simple.

John Lynch says he is, so I will go with that! John Lynch > Bucfan40

John Lynch said the Josh Johnson could develop into a franchise QB too.

Harbaugh out in SanFran thinks so too. Not a totally outlandish though. I'm not sure he can be but I think he was unfairly treated here. When someone calls a 23 year old a "career backup" after he beats out "franchise" in camp, you know it won't go well.

[Ladyfan]

Interesting story on metrics of QBs.  But really, only the Shadow knows if Josh will make the grade.

[JavaRay]

Honestly tired of seeing his weapons crapped on. Blount is a 1,000 yard running back. Williams is a near 1000 yard receiver and 10 TD pass catcher. Briscoe put up monster numbers at Kansas. It begins and ends with the quarterback. He has to get the ball to guys to make plays and IMO, he's not that guy. He was a thrower last year and it worked. Defenses realized he can't read anything (3 years in, 2.5 as a starter, that's inexcusable). Fact is

Year 1: 3-6
Year 2: 10-6
Year 3: 4-12

17-24 as a starter
14-20 in college as a starter

In college

Year 1: 4-5
Year 2: 5-7 (started 4-2 ironically)
Year 3: 5-7 (started 4-2 again)

Dude isn't a winner. Pure and simple.

John Lynch says he is, so I will go with that! John Lynch > Bucfan40

John Lynch said the Josh Johnson could develop into a franchise QB too.

Harbaugh out in SanFran thinks so too. Not a totally outlandish though. I'm not sure he can be but I think he was unfairly treated here. When someone calls a 23 year old a "career backup" after he beats out "franchise" in camp, you know it won't go well.

Had the Bucs kept Gruden, Josh Johnson probably would be a top NFL QB right now starting for the Bucs in the playoffs.

[Detrimental]

Because QB's can play defense too now? This board is flooded with bunch of idiots.

Kansas State has had fielded some horrible defenses with Freeman besides 2007. And at Tampa, he got the same thing. Why is that surprising? In order to win games you need a defense to stop teams from scoring. And Freeman has never had a defense that was any good.

[jhop88]

I'm not sure, but I will say this...IMO, the terribleness that was TB's defense this season hid the main problem w/this team this season...Josh Freeman. Again, yes, the defense was terrible, but I think Freeman was equally as terrible. Even more important though is in today's game, you can obviously win with a terrible defense...it's almost impossible to win with a terrible QB.

[Bucfan40]

I'm not sure, but I will say this...IMO, the terribleness that was TB's defense this season hid the main problem w/this team this season...Josh Freeman. Again, yes, the defense was terrible, but I think Freeman was equally as terrible. Even more important though is in today's game, you can obviously win with a terrible defense...it's almost impossible to win with a terrible QB.

WORD. Freeman set the tone for the year in the first game when Ronde got a pick near the goalline and Josh procdeeded to get picked in the end zone.

[jhop88]

Because QB's can play defense too now? This board is flooded with bunch of idiots.

Kansas State has had fielded some horrible defenses with Freeman besides 2007. And at Tampa, he got the same thing. Why is that surprising? In order to win games you need a defense to stop teams from scoring. And Freeman has never had a defense that was any good.

Oh really? The 23rd, 24th, and 25th ranked defenses in terms of pts allowed this season will be playing this weekend. The #1 seeds in the AFC and NFC are 15th and 19th respectively in pts allowed.

In other words, next!

[jhop88]

I'm not sure, but I will say this...IMO, the terribleness that was TB's defense this season hid the main problem w/this team this season...Josh Freeman. Again, yes, the defense was terrible, but I think Freeman was equally as terrible. Even more important though is in today's game, you can obviously win with a terrible defense...it's almost impossible to win with a terrible QB.

WORD. Freeman set the tone for the year in the first game when Ronde got a pick near the goalline and Josh procdeeded to get picked in the end zone.

That's the other aspect of this season that I think is way overlooked...red zone efficiency both on offense and defense. Not sure where the Bucs ranked in terms of scoring RZ TDs, but I'm gonna assume it was near the bottom and IMO, a lot of this falls on Freeman...as for the defense, again, not sure where they fall, but I'm thinking it was near the bottom. The #1 seeds in both conferences both gave up more YPG than the Bucs did yet they gave up 135 and 152 pts less.