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alldaway

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#75 : January 05, 2012, 04:40:36 PM

Stroud is saying MD did accompany the Glazers to Houston for the interviews.  Interesting.

CBWx2

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#76 : January 05, 2012, 05:27:01 PM

Pagano is a first year DC who's only other NFL experience has been in various stints as a secondary coach. The only thing seperating him from Raheem Morris is that one season at DC he has had.

Pete Carmichael has 3 years experience at OC, all with the Saints, during which time he hasn't been in charge of calling the plays. Prior experience was as a quality control guy and position coach.

Dennison does have somewhat equitable experience to Gray, although he's only worked under offensive coaches Mike Shannahan and Gary Kubiak. Not sure if he called plays under Shannahan in Denver, but he doesn't in Houston. Kubiak does.

Fangio is longer tenured, but has not had equal success.

You're selling Pagano pretty short in the experience department. 

No I'm not. The bulk of his experience has been at the college level. In the NFL, he has one season as a DC, this season. That's equal or more experience than Gray in your opinion?

Carmichael has been the "OC" for one of the most potent offenses in the league for years, which Gray can't say defensively.  If you give Gray credited for the being the "DC" with Gregg Williams as HC in Devner, you should do the same with Carmichael.  And then if you want to discuss Gray for his time as DC in Buffalo without Williams, he had the #2 defense in 2004 and then the #29 defense the following season.  Not so bright and shiny when you look at that way.

So being a coordinator that doesn't call plays gives you equitable value to being a coordinator that does? C'mon dude. Even you don't believe that. As to Gray after Williams, are you suggesting that Williams was still somehow responsible for the success Gray had in 2004 even though he wasn't even there anymore?

Fagino's defense is #4 overall and #2 in scoring this season.  His success is looking pretty good.

And in his last stint at DC with the Texans in 2005, his defense was ranked dead last. He's had some success, but has had a larger amount of failure. It was rumored that one of the reasons Jim Mora was fired by the Colts in 2001 was because he refused to replace Fangio at DC after having the last ranked defense in the NFL that season too. The only reason he got back into the NFL to begin with is because he was Harbaugh's DC at Stanford. He made the most of his opportunity and may very well get interviewed this time around. We will see.


Biggs3535

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#77 : January 05, 2012, 07:49:43 PM

No I'm not. The bulk of his experience has been at the college level. In the NFL, he has one season as a DC, this season. That's equal or more experience than Gray in your opinion?

Pagano:  10 years in the NFL and 14 years in college
Gray:  14 years in the NFL and 0 years in college

Yeah, I'm gonna say Pagano has equal or more experience than Gray.  I don't think that's all that controversial, but whatever.



So being a coordinator that doesn't call plays gives you equitable value to being a coordinator that does? C'mon dude. Even you don't believe that.

No, my point was Gray was also in a position where he simply had the title of DC where the HC called the plays.



As to Gray after Williams, are you suggesting that Williams was still somehow responsible for the success Gray had in 2004 even though he wasn't even there anymore?

That wasn't what I was saying, but I could make that argument.

2001 Bills with Williams as HC, Gray as DC:  21st in total defense
2002 Bills with Williams as HC, Gray as DC:  15th in total defense
2003 Bills with Williams as HC, Gray as DC:  2nd in total defense
2004 Bills with Mularkey as HC, Gray as DC:  2nd in total defense
2005 BIlls with Mularkey as HC, Gray as DC:  29th in total defense

Every year Williams called the plays, the defense improved.  When Williams left and Gray took over, the defense remained the same which was very good - to Gray's credit.  But that following year is a helluva drop - to Gray's failure.  One could argue the further away from Williams and closer to Gray the defense got, the worse it was.

But my original point was that Gray, like Carmichael, was a Coordinator in title only at one point.  Again, I'm not bashing Gray.  I like him quite a bit.  My only point in there are multiple candidates with similar resumes, yet they aren't being interviewed like Gray.  Maybe it's a complete coincidence, or maybe not.
: January 05, 2012, 07:52:53 PM Biggs3535


JavaRay

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#78 : January 05, 2012, 08:00:51 PM

Stroud is saying MD did accompany the Glazers to Houston for the interviews.  Interesting.

There are some good strip clubs in Houston.


CBWx2

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#79 : January 05, 2012, 08:13:43 PM

Gregg Williams didn't call the defensive plays in Buffalo, Gray did.


Biggs3535

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#80 : January 05, 2012, 08:29:03 PM

Gregg Williams didn't call the defensive plays in Buffalo, Gray did.

Do you have a link for that?


ryan24

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#81 : January 05, 2012, 09:25:12 PM


Hires like Raheem Morris.  Which by the way, had he been white, wouldn't have been hired the same way because it would have broken the outdated rule.

Seemed to work just fine.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

CBWx2

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#82 : January 05, 2012, 10:10:04 PM

Gregg Williams didn't call the defensive plays in Buffalo, Gray did.

Do you have a link for that?

No. But I do know that he was retained by an offensive minded coach (Mularkey) after Williams left, and that his defense performed identically the year after Williams left as it did the year before. Both would suggest to me that he did call the plays there. Do you have a link that he didn't? Because the fact that Carmichael and Dennison don't is pretty well documented.


Biggs3535

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#83 : January 05, 2012, 10:21:40 PM

Gregg Williams didn't call the defensive plays in Buffalo, Gray did.

Do you have a link for that?

No. But I do know that he was retained by an offensive minded coach (Mularkey) after Williams left, and that his defense performed identically the year after Williams left as it did the year before. Both would suggest to me that he did call the plays there. Do you have a link that he didn't? Because the fact that Carmichael and Dennison don't is pretty well documented.

I'm sure you just found out it's fairly difficult to find documentation about who called plays for particular team 6 or 7 years ago.  Greg Williams is the type of coach that would call his own plays.  I think the defensive stats I posted above with the team getting better every year with him there, staying the same the next season, and becoming horrible the next season is decent evidence to the notion that Greg Williams handled the defense while he was there.   Since Williams brought him over from Tennessee, obviously Gray would have had quite a bit of input on the defense - but I'm guessing Williams made the calls on gameday.

But you made the definitive statement about Gray calling the plays, so I thought you might have some hard evidence to go along with it.


CBWx2

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#84 : January 05, 2012, 11:13:53 PM

Gregg Williams didn't call the defensive plays in Buffalo, Gray did.

Do you have a link for that?

No. But I do know that he was retained by an offensive minded coach (Mularkey) after Williams left, and that his defense performed identically the year after Williams left as it did the year before. Both would suggest to me that he did call the plays there. Do you have a link that he didn't? Because the fact that Carmichael and Dennison don't is pretty well documented.

I'm sure you just found out it's fairly difficult to find documentation about who called plays for particular team 6 or 7 years ago.  Greg Williams is the type of coach that would call his own plays.  I think the defensive stats I posted above with the team getting better every year with him there, staying the same the next season, and becoming horrible the next season is decent evidence to the notion that Greg Williams handled the defense while he was there.   Since Williams brought him over from Tennessee, obviously Gray would have had quite a bit of input on the defense - but I'm guessing Williams made the calls on gameday.

But you made the definitive statement about Gray calling the plays, so I thought you might have some hard evidence to go along with it.

Well there isn't anything saying he didn't, and the general consensus is that he did. Titans hired the guy based on something, because it's not as though Mike Munchak has experience coaching a defense. What makes you think Williams is the type to call his own plays? Most defensive guys that do that don't hire coordinators.

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