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warrenfb12

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#150 : January 16, 2012, 11:59:10 PM

It always helps a guys stock when he has a cam newton.

So you are saying that it is Newton making Chudzinski look good? Ok, let's take a look at some of the great QB's and how good they made their coaches look their rookie seasons. Troy Aikman sure made Jimmy Johnson look good (1-15). How about Payton Manning? What? 3-13? Got Mora fired? Ok, lets take a look at Eli. He holds the dubious record of posting a 0.00 QB rating in a game during his rookie season. Once Coughlin named him the starter, the Giants went on to lose 6 of the 7 games he started that year and got knocked out of playoff contention after a 5-2 start with Warner at QB. Drew Brees? Shotty chose to start ancient Doug Flutie over Brees his rookie season? Later decided to give up on Brees and draft Rivers? Sherman parked Rodgers on the bench for 3 years. I could go on and on.

Look, we've all seen the pre-draft interviews with Newton and the ESPN thing that Gruden did with him. The kid ain't no rocket scientist. For a coach to be able to dumb down the offense for a rookie yet still have enough creativity in plays as well as play to the strengths of his QB says an awful lot about Chudz to me. To say that ANY coach is riding on the coattails of a ROOKIE QB is just plain ludicrous.


Yes. That is what I am saying. What do any of these other QBs have to do with what Cam Newton did? That entire first paragraph is irrelevant, these are all poor individual seasons that belong in a conversation on whether or not to give up on Freeman, not whether having Cam Newton helped Chudzinski. Your opinion on how intelligent Cam Newton is matters little to me as well, and is also irrelevant in this argument. The young man is a fantastic athlete, who provided an extremely dynamic weapon which Chudzinski utilized.


Captain Hindsight

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#151 : January 17, 2012, 12:15:12 AM

The intelligence of a QB is irrelevant in a discussion about who made who between OC and QB?

"WE SAW A 36 UP ON THE BOARD, AND THAT'S A PLAY!" -Cam Newton

You're right about him being a fantastic athlete, which is precisely why he went #1 overall. But to do what he did, you need some smarts coming from somewhere other than just pure athleticism.

Freeman is athletic and smart, I can't even begin to think how well he would do under Chud. And the way he's managed to get so much out of big ego's at every stop of his career says he is capable of doing such as a HC, just look at the list of characters he's coached (Steve Smith, Newton, Jeremy Shockey, Braylon, K2, and I'm probably missing plenty more)


warrenfb12

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#152 : January 17, 2012, 08:11:40 AM

The intelligence of a QB is irrelevant in a discussion about who made who between OC and QB?

"WE SAW A 36 UP ON THE BOARD, AND THAT'S A PLAY!" -Cam Newton

You're right about him being a fantastic athlete, which is precisely why he went #1 overall. But to do what he did, you need some smarts coming from somewhere other than just pure athleticism.

Freeman is athletic and smart, I can't even begin to think how well he would do under Chud. And the way he's managed to get so much out of big ego's at every stop of his career says he is capable of doing such as a HC, just look at the list of characters he's coached (Steve Smith, Newton, Jeremy Shockey, Braylon, K2, and I'm probably missing plenty more)


I never questioned Newton's intelligence, cyber did and I merely was saying that his opinion on how intelligent Cam Newton is, is irrelevant.


JDouble

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#153 : January 17, 2012, 08:38:50 AM

In 2010, did Greg Olsen really have anything to do with Freeman's success? Or was it more about Freeman being a young stud that teams weren't ready for? Was it Olsen putting Freeman in a good position to succeed or was it Freeman making things happen and carrying the team on his back? I think is was pretty clearly Freeman winning despite Olsen.

Now I won't go as far as to say Newton had success despite Chud, because I think Chud did do a much better job at playing to Newton's strengths than Olsen did for Freeman, but I am confident that last year's success was much more Cam Newton than Chud. Cam wasn't confused or hesitant like people expected. He just came at teams 100% running around and chucking it 50 yards down field. The entire season resembled schoolyard football between Cam and Steve Smith...and I'm not knocking it cause it works, but I doubt it's Chud drawing up schoolyard plays. It's much more likely that it's just Cam playing the only way he knows how.


Biggs3535

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#154 : January 17, 2012, 08:50:29 AM

Cam wasn't confused or hesitant like people expected.

And why do you suppose that was?


JDouble

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#155 : January 17, 2012, 08:57:23 AM

Because he plays school yard football. I'll run around and you get open.


CBWx2

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#156 : January 17, 2012, 09:03:44 AM

In 2010, did Greg Olsen really have anything to do with Freeman's success? Or was it more about Freeman being a young stud that teams weren't ready for? Was it Olsen putting Freeman in a good position to succeed or was it Freeman making things happen and carrying the team on his back? I think is was pretty clearly Freeman winning despite Olsen.

Now I won't go as far as to say Newton had success despite Chud, because I think Chud did do a much better job at playing to Newton's strengths than Olsen did for Freeman, but I am confident that last year's success was much more Cam Newton than Chud. Cam wasn't confused or hesitant like people expected. He just came at teams 100% running around and chucking it 50 yards down field. The entire season resembled schoolyard football between Cam and Steve Smith...and I'm not knocking it cause it works, but I doubt it's Chud drawing up schoolyard plays. It's much more likely that it's just Cam playing the only way he knows how.

If you look at the types of things Cam Newton was doing last year and what Derek Anderson did in 2007, it looks eerily similar. What Chud did for Cam last season was the same thing he did for Anderson, quick drops, play action fakes, one or two reads max, and unload. The only noticeable ripple was the college aspect added to the offense. As far as the passing plays went, it was basically the same. Anderson averaged 7.2 yards per attempt and Cam averaged 7.8, however, Anderson attempted more passes than Cam and completed a lower percentage, so that average is actually even closer than it looks.

If you go by yards per completion, Newton averaged 13.1 and Anderson averaged 12.7.
: January 17, 2012, 09:07:30 AM CBWx2


Biggs3535

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#157 : January 17, 2012, 09:05:04 AM

Because he plays school yard football. I'll run around and you get open.

I'm not calling you out here because you've already owned up to calling Newton a bust, but you were one of the loudest guys on this board saying Newton was going to suck in the NFL.  After Newton goes on to prove you and everyone else wrong this season, you gotta give a good amount of credit to the people who helped him prepare and put him in situations where he could succeed.  Chud tailored that offense around Newton and his skillset.  It wasn't the same offense he ran in Cleveland.  He was smart enough not to square-peg/round-hold the QB he was given to work with.

I'd love to see what an offensive guy like that could do with Freeman.


JDouble

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#158 : January 17, 2012, 09:11:04 AM



I'm not calling you out here because you've already owned up to calling Newton a bust, but you were one of the loudest guys on this board saying Newton was going to suck in the NFL. 

Um...you said you weren't....and then you did...in the same sentence.


warrenfb12

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#159 : January 17, 2012, 10:37:55 AM

Because he plays school yard football. I'll run around and you get open.

I'm not calling you out here because you've already owned up to calling Newton a bust, but you were one of the loudest guys on this board saying Newton was going to suck in the NFL.  After Newton goes on to prove you and everyone else wrong this season, you gotta give a good amount of credit to the people who helped him prepare and put him in situations where he could succeed.  Chud tailored that offense around Newton and his skillset.  It wasn't the same offense he ran in Cleveland.  He was smart enough not to square-peg/round-hold the QB he was given to work with.

I'd love to see what an offensive guy like that could do with Freeman.


Obviously, Newton had a solid year, so you cannot label his rookie year a "bust." However, I think we should wait and see how he performs next year, before we crown him.

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