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ONEBIGDADDY

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#30 : January 22, 2012, 11:56:37 AM

You make the assumption the 'inequity' or 'unfairness' comes from the economic system.  I would differ - I believe it comes from the government under the guise of creating 'equity' and 'fairness'.  Check out the tax code to see this in action, then review the court system.  Right now the federal tax code is so convoluted few if any trust it to be fair or equitable - let alone effective.  Then watching as Washington is bought - because it is for sale - by those seeking advantage for folks they represent - be that business or other countries - and the issues get even murkier.

And then there is that part about borrowing money to increase spending...

None of the above is a feature of a capitalism - but if you were to look at the bastardization of a representative government you would be closing in upon the problem imvho
And thus that is the other part of the equation which is part of the applications...I agree...OBD


dbucfan

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#31 : January 22, 2012, 12:12:50 PM

The link is when does a lobbyist become an influence peddler imvho - however - capitalism while it can use such channels - is not designed to use elected officials - it is elected officials that seek to profit from their position ... just my .02.  A lot easier to handled the 535 in Congress, plus the executive branch, than it is to control the largest economy in the world.  But of course - we would have to 1. understand the issue and 2. want to make the change.  Right now folks are closing in on #2 - but searching all over for a start on the first target.     

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

ONEBIGDADDY

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#32 : January 22, 2012, 12:18:06 PM

The link is when does a lobbyist become an influence peddler imvho - however - capitalism while it can use such channels - is not designed to use elected officials - it is elected officials that seek to profit from their position ... just my .02.  A lot easier to handled the 535 in Congress, plus the executive branch, than it is to control the largest economy in the world.  But of course - we would have to 1. understand the issue and 2. want to make the change.  Right now folks are closing in on #2 - but searching all over for a start on the first target.   
Which means he/they has/have to have principle so that he can make the right decision or have the correct understanding to do the appropriate change...Thus Therory, Application and Principle has to be derived and instituted for equality for all. Not people who don't pay as much in taxes as I don't have their money and pay more in taxes...that is just how I see it...OBD


dalbuc

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#33 : January 22, 2012, 12:38:53 PM

Capitalist need a watch dog due to the overwhelming greed or you theoritically end up having slaves for the master of the plantation...Sorry but there has to be some equallity for the middleclass. If there isn't you will then pander always to "two classes" for the middleclass will cease to exist. Therory is nice in the classroom but there has to be principle and application applied in the middle of theoritical explaination...JMVHO...OBD

History shows the opposite, it was capitalism that created a middle class from a world when heavy regulation had a very rich and very poor. In fact, across the world be it Asia or Eastern Europe of Latin American the breakdown of traditional economies or socialists systems and a more free market system creates much more income equality.


All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

ONEBIGDADDY

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#34 : January 22, 2012, 12:47:28 PM

Capitalist need a watch dog due to the overwhelming greed or you theoritically end up having slaves for the master of the plantation...Sorry but there has to be some equallity for the middleclass. If there isn't you will then pander always to "two classes" for the middleclass will cease to exist. Therory is nice in the classroom but there has to be principle and application applied in the middle of theoritical explaination...JMVHO...OBD

History shows the opposite, it was capitalism that created a middle class from a world when heavy regulation had a very rich and very poor. In fact, across the world be it Asia or Eastern Europe of Latin American the breakdown of traditional economies or socialists systems and a more free market system creates much more income equality.
History may show the opposite but with all the loop holes in the tax code the middle class is not doing as well as they were twenty years ago...We have regressed so that the margins are further apart...That was from what was being shown lately on statistics...OBD


dalbuc

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#35 : January 22, 2012, 12:55:39 PM

History may show the opposite but with all the loop holes in the tax code the middle class is not doing as well as they were twenty years ago...We have regressed so that the margins are further apart...That was from what was being shown lately on statistics...OBD

As I said those stats are mostly wrong and measuring "income" based on 1040 forms doesn't capture anything meaningful other than how folks choose to classify their income.

Plus, no matter what those stats claim to show what they all agree on is that middle class incomes have risen in real terms as well over the long term. We're not doing worse today, we're doing better. The only thing worse is that people can now "see" all the things the rich have and so they might feel some sense of relative deprivation but it is clearly not an absolute decline.

The tax code is byzantine and unfair but it is unfair in a host of ways far worse most of them focused on lifestyle. Want to live in Honolulu or New York? Higher cost of living = higher salary = higher tax bracket even though your standard of living isn't higher.  Want to get married? Bad idea under the tax code. What to rent instead of buy? Well bend over and take it. Not interested in kids, sorry the 1040 loves rugrats. Hell I lowered my tax burden by buying a new car and because it was a nicer car I got to deduct more off my taxes. How flippin' dumb is that?

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

alldaway

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#36 : January 22, 2012, 01:00:14 PM

Yes the new car deduction is strange, but I suppose it is a reward for the massive sales tax generated.

dalbuc

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#37 : January 22, 2012, 01:15:52 PM

Yes the new car deduction is strange, but I suppose it is a reward for the massive sales tax generated.

...but the feds don't get that. Frankly the fact that the feds allow you to deduct state income tax is silly - not to mention there is no limit on how much you can deduct plus the higher the state sales tax the "better" your deduction. It again says that where you choose to live has a lot more to do with your federal tax rate than anyone cares to ponder.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

dbucfan

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#38 : January 22, 2012, 01:18:46 PM

The link is when does a lobbyist become an influence peddler imvho - however - capitalism while it can use such channels - is not designed to use elected officials - it is elected officials that seek to profit from their position ... just my .02.  A lot easier to handled the 535 in Congress, plus the executive branch, than it is to control the largest economy in the world.  But of course - we would have to 1. understand the issue and 2. want to make the change.  Right now folks are closing in on #2 - but searching all over for a start on the first target.   
Which means he/they has/have to have principle so that he can make the right decision or have the correct understanding to do the appropriate change...
or we have to find representatives that will - I agree

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

dark uncle

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#39 : January 22, 2012, 03:20:12 PM

Yes the new car deduction is strange, but I suppose it is a reward for the massive sales tax generated.

...but the feds don't get that. Frankly the fact that the feds allow you to deduct state income tax is silly - not to mention there is no limit on how much you can deduct plus the higher the state sales tax the "better" your deduction. It again says that where you choose to live has a lot more to do with your federal tax rate than anyone cares to ponder.

Hey Dalbuc,
Why is it not right to allow us to deduct state income taxes?  It is simply leveling the taxation across the country by making allowances for different, and in some cases no, state income taxes.  For someone that pays, Federal, State and municipal income taxes, it seems pretty "fair" to me.  It isn't giving me any money, just not taxing me on money that other government entities are taking from me as well.  I still pay all the taxes on sales and gas and such...

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#40 : January 22, 2012, 04:46:29 PM

Yes the new car deduction is strange, but I suppose it is a reward for the massive sales tax generated.

...but the feds don't get that. Frankly the fact that the feds allow you to deduct state income tax is silly - not to mention there is no limit on how much you can deduct plus the higher the state sales tax the "better" your deduction. It again says that where you choose to live has a lot more to do with your federal tax rate than anyone cares to ponder.

Hey Dalbuc,
Why is it not right to allow us to deduct state income taxes?  It is simply leveling the taxation across the country by making allowances for different, and in some cases no, state income taxes.  For someone that pays, Federal, State and municipal income taxes, it seems pretty "fair" to me.  It isn't giving me any money, just not taxing me on money that other government entities are taking from me as well.  I still pay all the taxes on sales and gas and such...

One mans leveling the playing field is another mans subsidy! If your State gets to deduct it's income taxes, my State has to pay more to make up for it.

dalbuc

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#41 : January 22, 2012, 07:05:01 PM


Hey Dalbuc,
Why is it not right to allow us to deduct state income taxes?  It is simply leveling the taxation across the country by making allowances for different, and in some cases no, state income taxes.  For someone that pays, Federal, State and municipal income taxes, it seems pretty "fair" to me.  It isn't giving me any money, just not taxing me on money that other government entities are taking from me as well.  I still pay all the taxes on sales and gas and such...

No, it isn't leveling taxes across the country it is lower your federal income tax. You chose to live in a high tax area so don't ask me to take the hit for your lifestyle decision.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

ONEBIGDADDY

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#42 : January 22, 2012, 07:28:13 PM

History may show the opposite but with all the loop holes in the tax code the middle class is not doing as well as they were twenty years ago...We have regressed so that the margins are further apart...That was from what was being shown lately on statistics...OBD

As I said those stats are mostly wrong and measuring "income" based on 1040 forms doesn't capture anything meaningful other than how folks choose to classify their income.

Plus, no matter what those stats claim to show what they all agree on is that middle class incomes have risen in real terms as well over the long term. We're not doing worse today, we're doing better. The only thing worse is that people can now "see" all the things the rich have and so they might feel some sense of relative deprivation but it is clearly not an absolute decline.

The tax code is byzantine and unfair but it is unfair in a host of ways far worse most of them focused on lifestyle. Want to live in Honolulu or New York? Higher cost of living = higher salary = higher tax bracket even though your standard of living isn't higher.  Want to get married? Bad idea under the tax code. What to rent instead of buy? Well bend over and take it. Not interested in kids, sorry the 1040 loves rugrats. Hell I lowered my tax burden by buying a new car and because it was a nicer car I got to deduct more off my taxes. How flippin' dumb is that?
The middle class isn't really doing any better...they are far from it. Check out the economy and gas prices. The value of their homes and just trying to keep up with the insurance cost for health care with just trying to raise a family. Its not a pretty picture...Owners of companies are keeping more money in their pockets and making others bite the bullet for them...Thats also away they like to keep their help in check...I see it in the construction trade now more than ever...anyway...not everything your saying tho is not wrong....just its not as pretty as it may be understood...OBD


dbucfan

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#43 : January 23, 2012, 06:31:47 PM

OBD - check out the Occupy Wall Street group - they seem to be on message with the president.  Then type in google - OWS thieves - and see crap this group has done - like this http://news.yahoo.com/outbreak-theft-occupy-wall-street-beginning-end-181000011.html


\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

ONEBIGDADDY

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#44 : January 23, 2012, 07:14:00 PM

OBD - check out the Occupy Wall Street group - they seem to be on message with the president.  Then type in google - OWS thieves - and see crap this group has done - like this http://news.yahoo.com/outbreak-theft-occupy-wall-street-beginning-end-181000011.html
That is people within the group...I seen this and read where the detractors said this is not what they where about. I don't want anyone to come to PR and read one mans post of his actions and judge us all by it. I like to be judged by my own merits and hang with those who has the same values. What about the political people who are posers and do things to be disruptive to their opponents? I have seen that on Message Boards and in rallies...It is all spin to get one leader of each party to the top so they can pass their agenda's...I am sorry but If I had to vote today and I knew it would count and he would change his views on Iran my vote goes to Ron Paul...OBD

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