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JDouble

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#15 : May 06, 2012, 09:01:40 AM

Gruden lost his job because of his inability to work with young inexperienced players.....I'm sure Rutgers would be just trilled to have him! What a joke.

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Bucko40

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#16 : May 06, 2012, 09:44:41 AM

If Rutgers replaced Schiano with Gruden, they would be absolutely thrilled.    In effect, the Bucs have replaced Gruden with Schiano - and that is a downgrade.

This ain't Rutgers bro!  If it was yes Gruden would be great for initial recruiting, and his program would definitely be a hot topic and a favorite to land many great prospects.  However he doesn't do well with younger players especially QB's as they have trouble digesting his playbook.  As grateful as I am for what he did here, I'm not naive to the fact that his personality would probably cause more problems with his players than help them coming right out of high school.  Look no further than his development of Chris Simms and Grads, as those were his only real drafted prospects while he was here.  Yes Gradkowski is still kicking around the league but by no means is he even a functional starter.  Back to the topic at hand though, Gruden got replaced by Raheem which was a definite downgrade.  However Rah was them replaced by Schiano which is by far a major upgrade, if for no other reason so far than the discipline, attention to detail, and organizational skills that he has brought back to Tampa.

I love that this team is going to have accountability again!  Schiano to me has Dungy's class as well as his very organized and authoritative demeanor, but at the same time has Gruden's passion and fire.  Seems like the perfect combination to me, now like with every coach we just have to see how it translates in the win column.

Very good points. What I find hysterical is Gruden has never once developed a College QB in the NFL but he's known as a QB guru. Hell, ESPN even has him doing a pre-draft show on coaching up college QBs. What a joke. 

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#17 : May 06, 2012, 09:45:56 AM

Gruden lost his job because of his inability to work with young inexperienced players.....

Totally wrong.

Name one young player who left the Bucs and had a better career elsewhere because Gruden couldn't develop him but someone else could.    It didn't ever happen.    Fact is, Gruden was great with developing young players.    The problem was he was horrible at drafting and never had any decent talent to work with.


JavaRay

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#18 : May 06, 2012, 09:48:22 AM

Gruden has never once developed a College QB in the NFL but he's known as a QB guru.

Fact is that he did more with Chris Simms than anyone else could.   And Simms was really the only young QB he ever had the chance to spend some time developing.   Simms was a nightmare for every other team he went to, so it's pretty obvious that no other coach could have done better with him than Gruden did.

Hell, McCown even had his best games under Gruden.    How shocking that Raheem and his administration wasn't able to develop McCown at all (in fact he regressed), but they were able to "develop" Freeman much better.   It can't be that maybe Freeman just plain had talent already and there was no developing at all going on there - he just could plain out play....
: May 06, 2012, 09:52:54 AM JavaRay


JDouble

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#19 : May 06, 2012, 09:53:16 AM

Gruden lost his job because of his inability to work with young inexperienced players.....


Name one young player who left the Bucs and had a better career elsewhere

There are none. Gruden/Allen spent all of our cap on old washed up players because Gruden didn't have the patience to coach young men. Then they drafted horribly to top things off.

A better question is name one young player who did well under Gruden. In Tampa or Oakland. I don't think there is one single young offensive player that has ever excelled under Gruden. None. Ever.

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#20 : May 06, 2012, 09:56:44 AM

Gruden lost his job because of his inability to work with young inexperienced players.....


Name one young player who left the Bucs and had a better career elsewhere

There are none.

Exactly.    And that's because he was horrible at drafting, not because he was horrible at developing the players.    When not even one player leaves the team and has a better career somewhere else, but many players did leave the team and have the chance to do better elsewhere but didn't, that speaks volumes about the problem not being player development ability, but the problem was drafting ability.


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#21 : May 06, 2012, 11:04:50 AM

Gruden lost his job because of his inability to work with young inexperienced players.....


Name one young player who left the Bucs and had a better career elsewhere

There are none.

Exactly.    And that's because he was horrible at drafting, not because he was horrible at developing the players.    When not even one player leaves the team and has a better career somewhere else, but many players did leave the team and have the chance to do better elsewhere but didn't, that speaks volumes about the problem not being player development ability, but the problem was drafting ability.

Simms was drafted Grudens second year here by "his guy" Bruce Allen.  Allen was not McKay where here would draft whom he wanted regardless of what the coach wanted.  I have no doubt in my mind that Gruden spent many hours pouring over video of every QB prospect to come out of college that year and something must have jumped out at him to take Simms in the 3rd. Otherwise he very easilly could have taken a QB higher one of the following years.  Had Gruden actually followed through with what he said and taken Aaron Rodgers in 05 rather than Caddy, he might still be here, on the other hand if he didn't feel confident in developing him Rodgers very well could be out of the league right now and Gruden still losing his job if he had.  As far as McCown goes, yes he had some good "statistical" games here but what was his overall record during his time here in his limited starts?  I think a better question rather than name a young player that has played well for him, would be name a young player that had sustained success under him. The only one that stands out to me that had sustained success under him in his entire head coaching career would be Napoleon Kaufman and even his success only lasted a couple of years.

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#22 : May 06, 2012, 11:36:09 AM

Gruden lost his job because of his inability to work with young inexperienced players.....


Name one young player who left the Bucs and had a better career elsewhere

There are none.

Exactly.    And that's because he was horrible at drafting, not because he was horrible at developing the players.    When not even one player leaves the team and has a better career somewhere else, but many players did leave the team and have the chance to do better elsewhere but didn't, that speaks volumes about the problem not being player development ability, but the problem was drafting ability.

Simms was drafted Grudens second year here by "his guy" Bruce Allen.  Allen was not McKay where here would draft whom he wanted regardless of what the coach wanted.  I have no doubt in my mind that Gruden spent many hours pouring over video of every QB prospect to come out of college that year and something must have jumped out at him to take Simms in the 3rd. Otherwise he very easilly could have taken a QB higher one of the following years.  Had Gruden actually followed through with what he said and taken Aaron Rodgers in 05 rather than Caddy, he might still be here, on the other hand if he didn't feel confident in developing him Rodgers very well could be out of the league right now and Gruden still losing his job if he had.  As far as McCown goes, yes he had some good "statistical" games here but what was his overall record during his time here in his limited starts?  I think a better question rather than name a young player that has played well for him, would be name a young player that had sustained success under him. The only one that stands out to me that had sustained success under him in his entire head coaching career would be Napoleon Kaufman and even his success only lasted a couple of years.

Simms was drafted in the third round of the 2003 draft by Rich McKay. Without Gruden's consent. Which makes the rest of your post worthless.

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#23 : May 06, 2012, 11:53:46 AM

McKay drafted Simms not Allen.  It has also been reported MANY TIMES that Gruden did NOT want Simms and said so very strongly.

Also, jdub, I agree with you most of the time, but I DON'T agree that Gruden couldn't coach young offensive players.  How about Caddy, Joseph, Trueblood, Sears, Penn, etc., etc.  Where you ARE correct is that he wasn't successful coaching young QUARTERBACKS.  However, even then, when did he EVER have a QUALITY young qb to coach?  He never did.  I believe if he HAD, people wouldn't be saying that he couldn't coach young qbs.

It was KIFFIN, not Gruden who didn't like to play young players.  Gruden had many rookie starters on offense while he was here while Kiffin had VERY few.  Kiffin simply didn't like playing young players.

.....just my opinion

JDouble

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#24 : May 06, 2012, 11:59:47 AM

Java don't ignore my question.

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#25 : May 06, 2012, 12:03:11 PM

McKay drafted Simms not Allen.  It has also been reported MANY TIMES that Gruden did NOT want Simms and said so very strongly.

Also, jdub, I agree with you most of the time, but I DON'T agree that Gruden couldn't coach young offensive players.  How about Caddy, Joseph, Trueblood, Sears, Penn, etc., etc.  Where you ARE correct is that he wasn't successful coaching young QUARTERBACKS.  However, even then, when did he EVER have a QUALITY young qb to coach?  He never did.  I believe if he HAD, people wouldn't be saying that he couldn't coach young qbs.

It was KIFFIN, not Gruden who didn't like to play young players.  Gruden had many rookie starters on offense while he was here while Kiffin had VERY few.  Kiffin simply didn't like playing young players.

Only one of those is an actual NFL starter.... Gruden wears that Cadillac Williams pick like a huge albatross. He didn't have an eye for young talent at all.


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#26 : May 06, 2012, 12:08:17 PM

Rutgers fans are crushed....I live in NJ & it's all over the place.  He has really become quite a sports figure around here (& rightfully so).

"Crushed"?  I think that's an exaggeration.  They aren't happy... but to say crushed, is a bit extreme.

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#27 : May 06, 2012, 12:10:16 PM

If Rutgers replaced Schiano with Gruden, they would be absolutely thrilled.    In effect, the Bucs have replaced Gruden with Schiano - and that is a downgrade.

You are such a **CENSORED**.

bucshot420

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#28 : May 06, 2012, 12:24:34 PM

Gruden lost his job because of his inability to work with young inexperienced players.....


Name one young player who left the Bucs and had a better career elsewhere

There are none.

Exactly.    And that's because he was horrible at drafting, not because he was horrible at developing the players.    When not even one player leaves the team and has a better career somewhere else, but many players did leave the team and have the chance to do better elsewhere but didn't, that speaks volumes about the problem not being player development ability, but the problem was drafting ability.

Simms was drafted Grudens second year here by "his guy" Bruce Allen.  Allen was not McKay where here would draft whom he wanted regardless of what the coach wanted.  I have no doubt in my mind that Gruden spent many hours pouring over video of every QB prospect to come out of college that year and something must have jumped out at him to take Simms in the 3rd. Otherwise he very easilly could have taken a QB higher one of the following years.  Had Gruden actually followed through with what he said and taken Aaron Rodgers in 05 rather than Caddy, he might still be here, on the other hand if he didn't feel confident in developing him Rodgers very well could be out of the league right now and Gruden still losing his job if he had.  As far as McCown goes, yes he had some good "statistical" games here but what was his overall record during his time here in his limited starts?  I think a better question rather than name a young player that has played well for him, would be name a young player that had sustained success under him. The only one that stands out to me that had sustained success under him in his entire head coaching career would be Napoleon Kaufman and even his success only lasted a couple of years.

Simms was drafted in the third round of the 2003 draft by Rich McKay. Without Gruden's consent. Which makes the rest of your post worthless.

You're right.  I apologize.  I was having a sometimers moment.  I had forgotten that Rich had left at the end of the 03 season the week that we played ATL.  For some reason I was thinking he left during the offseason before 03.  I stand corrected.  I do still stand by my argument however that Gruden had plenty of opportunities to draft and develop "his guys" under Allen and was never able to.
: May 06, 2012, 12:26:26 PM bucshot420

Ironworker808

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#29 : May 06, 2012, 01:21:17 PM

I agree with your argument.

Suppose I should apologize also. I stopped reading your post after the first sentence. I should have kept reading. Turns out it does have merit. :)
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