duplicate thread

[BucD]

JasonOfthetower and JDouble...I agree completely...

But yea, this staff that Coach Schiano is putting together is so crucial.  ESPECIALLY the QB coach and OC (along with FA and draft) which is probably why they aren't giving up on McNulty.  Although, I'm sure that's dead.  It doesn't appear that they'll get their first choice, but they have to find the next best option.  Not just to start working w/ him on film and mechanics etc, but to put together a playbook.

It's make or break time.  He doesn't have to have another super star season, but he'll have to show big improvement and the rest of the offense around him does as well.  He really cannot do it all by himself as much as some Bucs' fans like to think and expect him from him.

As Bucs' fans you should be hoping and preying that he does return to some kind of 2010 form as if he doesn't...this team is **CENSORED**ed that much more...success will be pushed back and delayed that much farther...

I think he can and will, but again there are sooooo many factors that play in to it...

[tatmanfish]

Many Buc fans know nothing about QBs because theyve never seen a good one in Tampa. Their only basis of opinion are the Brady/Rodgers highlights on ESPN and how well they can throw the ball downfield on Madden. Theres no reason for short throws, the QB should be able to evade all pressure, make every read, and throw every pass on a dime.

Ignorance runs rampant when it comes the QB position in Tampa. Remember when everyone thought McCown was the answer? JJ? Simms? Garcia?

lol, all you have to do is look at who all these people clamor for and youll see why they are hating Freeman.

[BucD]

Many Buc fans know nothing about QBs because theyve never seen a good one in Tampa. Their only basis of opinion are the Brady/Rodgers highlights on ESPN and how well they can throw the ball downfield on Madden. Theres no reason for short throws, the QB should be able to evade all pressure, make every read, and throw every pass on a dime.

Ignorance runs rampant when it comes the QB position in Tampa. Remember when everyone thought McCown was the answer? JJ? Simms? Garcia?

lol, all you have to do is look at who all these people clamor for and youll see why they are hating Freeman.

Exactly.  Well said...

[XFactor]

Sharp I agree with your take for the most part, whats your definition of elite is the question that you have to ask yourself. To me there's Brady, Peyton, Drew and Rodgers then everyone else. Eli Manning is getting the elite tag now but I lump him into the good QB who has been playing great right now category. He has a good team around him.  Free was sitting at almost 63% completion percentage this year, which puts him as the 8th best in the league, it was the ints obviously that killed us but I am in the group that think he tried to force it way to much. That Olsens offense was to predictable, that the lack of run game let defenses just sit back and wait for him to make a mistake. I think Free will end being more Eli then Peyton, we just need to put a good team around him.

[moose40]

I just think it's obvious that when a team is in complete disarray like ours was this year, it is ridiculous to judge the QB off that one year. When there is no chemistry, no timing, and nobody open....it gets ugly. A great passing offense is all about receivers getting open and being in a certain spot. When this doesn't happen the QB doesn't know what to expect and has no confidence in the decisions he makes. Think about it, you make your first read on a deep go route and Mike Williams got man handled at the line, so you go to option two which is a deep cross to Benn but he isn't even where he is suppose to be and he's covered, then you check it down to Kregg Lumpkin. Unless of course you are down by 30 points because the entire team is horrible. Then you force it because you have to make something happen. On top of that your pass protection is inconsistant so your getting instant pressure every other down. How is any QB going to be good in that situation?

The Freeman haters will say this is an excuse, but it is the reality. Great offense is about perfect timing. Everyone being on the same page and knowing what the other guy is thinking. Executing to perfection. When the entire offense is confused and unprepared, there is no way in hell a young QB in his second year starting is going to look good. It's fact.

Agreed, to many bucs fans are quick to judge after 1 year.

Exactly, too many Buc fans are quick to say he has the talent to be elite after one good year.  His first 10 games, and his 3rd year say he's not elite

[BucNY]

We all know that Antonio Bryant caused a lot of picks by Freeman trying to force it in and not being on the same page. I got that same feeling from Winslow this year. Slight variations in route running can cause significant problems.

[moose40]

My hope for Freeman is that this year we are like the 2011 49ers. Play good defense and run the ball. When you do this effectively the QB won't put up huge numbers but he has a much easier job. It would be a confidence building year and give everyone a chance to get accustom to the new playbook and build some chemistry/timing.

Obviously our defense won't be as good as the 49ers were this year, but I'm hoping for a big improvement to at least middle of the pack in all categories. The running game is the key. I think if we go after and get Carl Nicks in FA, and draft Richardson or Martin to pair with Blount....we can truly have a dominant run game and follow the 49ers blueprint.

JDouble, if you have a qb that can be elite, shouldn't the offseason be enough to implement a new system and put the ball in your qb's hands? I understand the point you are trying to make, about acclimating to the new system, but if he's elite, they shouldn't have to bring him along slowly like that.  I'm just saying that if he's elite (and you know I believe him to be avg, which isn't a bad thing when there are only 32 starting qb's, and I think of him as somewhere in the 10-20 range) he would be considered a weapon and you don't limit him.

[moose40]

Many Buc fans know nothing about QBs because theyve never seen a good one in Tampa. Their only basis of opinion are the Brady/Rodgers highlights on ESPN and how well they can throw the ball downfield on Madden. Theres no reason for short throws, the QB should be able to evade all pressure, make every read, and throw every pass on a dime.

Ignorance runs rampant when it comes the QB position in Tampa. Remember when everyone thought McCown was the answer? JJ? Simms? Garcia?

lol, all you have to do is look at who all these people clamor for and youll see why they are hating Freeman.

Unfortunately, that's the exact same point I've made about people thinking Freeman is elite, Tampa's only franchise/good qb's became those qb's after leaving Tampa. Tampa fans have seen such poor qb performances here, that after one year of good play they want to anoint Freeman as elite.  How about we see improvement from him before thinking he's good, yet alone elite.

This will be Freeman's 4th year, it's time for him to put up and show what he is.

[acacius]

This will be Freeman's 4th year, it's time for him to put up and show what he is.

Yeah, I don't think anyone who's even vaguely honest would deny that this is a going to be really big year for Freeman, one way or the other.  Barring a catastrophic early-season injury, it should tell us an awful lot.

[moose40]

That's what I'm hoping for acacius, I hope this year tell us Buc fans, and most improtantly, the coaches, if we have our qb of the future, or if that is an upgrade needed.

[alldaway]

I don't think Freeman will ever be an elite franchise QB.

[moose40]

I don't think Freeman will ever be an elite franchise QB.

I agree, but the nice thing is, Super Bowls aren't always won by elite qbs, Dilfer obviously wasn't elite, but if we can build the defense back to being one of the best, the Bucs have a shot

[alldaway]

I don't think Freeman will ever be an elite franchise QB.

I agree, but the nice thing is, Super Bowls aren't always won by elite qbs, Dilfer obviously wasn't elite, but if we can build the defense back to being one of the best, the Bucs have a shot

I think Freeman can be a franchise QB like Ryan or Flacco but not elite.

[moose40]

I don't think Freeman will ever be an elite franchise QB.

I agree, but the nice thing is, Super Bowls aren't always won by elite qbs, Dilfer obviously wasn't elite, but if we can build the defense back to being one of the best, the Bucs have a shot

I think Freeman can be a franchise QB like Ryan or Flacco but not elite.

That's a fair assessment, with proper coaching, a true number 1 receiver to help, and a better rb core group, I could see him elevating his game into the Romo, Flacco, Ryan level, somewhere in the 8-12 top qb's in the league level.

[TBayXXXVII]

I don't think Freeman will ever be an elite franchise QB.

I agree, but the nice thing is, Super Bowls aren't always won by elite qbs, Dilfer obviously wasn't elite, but if we can build the defense back to being one of the best, the Bucs have a shot

I think Freeman can be a franchise QB like Ryan or Flacco but not elite.

Uh-oh... Flacco?  If Ray Lewis changes his mind and does retire, Flacco will be replaced next offseason.  He's not a very good QB.  His defense is helping him out.