duplicate thread

[moose40]

saying he will be elite is just as silly.

Most people would say Brady is elite, was Welker as good in Miami as he is in N.E.? The qb having "it" is just as important if not more so, then the supporting cast. the offense goes and fails as the qb.

[jlr0714]

And if you can point out where I said he definitely will be elite, that would mean something.   The point I'm making is that being ready to discard a 23 year old QB who has flashed potential over a year with a high interception total makes no sense for this franchise...particularly in light of just how bad the entire offense was last year.   Receivers running bad routes, dropping passes, failing to get separation...the team falling behind...by a lot....quickly.  Not a recipe for sucess for a young QB.

[dalbuc]

Sharp, most young NFL QBs don't start to be able to read and dissect coverages and whatnot easily until their 4th or 5th year.  I think Freeman will be just fine but he definately needs to be coached up by a guru or someone that is a great QB teacher. It would accelerate that process and get him back on track. IMO you don't throw 25 TDs and 6 INT as a fluke, and let's be honest, that BUCS team wasn't the greatest team ever either...he didn't have many WR weapons to work with outside of Mike Williams & Winslow.

Actually their year 2 QBR (if they play )is pretty much indicative of who they are for their career with a small handful of exceptions. What Freeman did by being sooo good and then sooo bad is a massive anomoly the only other "similar" condition was big ben after his windshield accident and that obviously had other factors. What Josh is is a mystery BUT when the team was falling part the way it was last year it is hard to say who anyone is.based on that year. Josh played terrible last season but he wasn't alone but then again even in weeks 1-6 when things were still on the tracks he was all over the place with his QBR.

[moose40]

and I don't think people are giving up on Freeman, some of us "yahoos" are sick of listening to people defend Freeman and insinuate that he is an elite qb, when he doesn't display the skills of an elite qb. "it's all the lack of coaching" or its "the receivers fault". Nobody has yet to explain to me why Freeman did so wonderful in 2010 with WIlliams, Winslow and Benn, along with Blount and Graham, and yet those same type of players caused Freeman to be so horrible the following year. --along with the poor calls by Olson. One more year, with more experience in the system, and he became worse by a large degree. Yeah, he's showing elite status by getting dramatically worse three years in.

Most of the yahoos agree that he is the Buccaneer starter, we think he can be a good qb, and we hope for the sake of the Bucs that he becomes good, but we aren't going to confuse Freeman for a Brady, Rodgers, Brees type of qb.
 

[moose40]

And if you can point out where I said he definitely will be elite, that would mean something.   The point I'm making is that being ready to discard a 23 year old QB who has flashed potential over a year with a high interception total makes no sense for this franchise...particularly in light of just how bad the entire offense was last year.   Receivers running bad routes, dropping passes, failing to get separation...the team falling behind...by a lot....quickly.  Not a recipe for sucess for a young QB.

How about the interceptions in the red zone? are those elite qb qualities? Freeman tossing picks certainly had a big helping hand in the Bucs falling behind by a lot quickly. How many of those "dropped passes" were the result of a bad throw, or the defender making a play on the ball due to Freeman locking on to the receiver?
I'm not saying to discard him, like I've said in other posts, there are only 32 starting qb's he's in the middle, "average", not elite.
My point is simply, he's not displaying qualities of an elite qb. That's not a sin by any means, Brad Johnson wasn't elite, he rode the defense, and made plenty of plays on offense to get to the super bowl.

[sharp2325]

Agree totally Moose. He is a good QB. We don't need an elite QB to win. We need him to be good. Shoot I hope he becomes elite, but just don't see it happening because of accuracy. Accuracy is what sets elite QB's apart from good. For everyone that bashes Blount, should thank him for Freeman's performance in 2010. Blount's running was what opened up the play action that  allowed freeman to have the year he had. If we get Blount running again, you will see Freeman's numbers up this year.

[moose40]

thanks sharp, all I want to see is Freeman clean up his game before people call him a top 10 qb, let alone elite.

[Detrimental]

Elite is a lot to ask for IMO

We're talking top 5 QB in this league. Elite is being top 3 in at least a few of these categories (passing yards, td's, completion %, and QB rating)


Tall order for a mid-round first round pick. We will need one hell of a supporting cast and good coaching staff for him to ever be elite. Stafford will be elite before Freeman is.

Now above average in which in case is top 12-14(Flacco, Ryan, Cutler) or so, that's more like to be expected until the supporting cast gets better.

[acacius]

That's pretty much how I see it.  He's not going to be a Peyton or a Brady.  He just isn't.  But I think the possibility still exists that he'll be able to be an important player for the team going ahead.  But he will have to play better than he did last year.

[Detrimental]

Hell, if you think about it. Eli Manning was the #1 overall pick, but he never played a whole year of being "elite". He puts together very nice stretches and plays well when it matters. If we can get Freeman on that level, we might be onto something. We fans should expect Freeman to be consistently efficient. Tom Brady was very efficient before Moss, Welker, and co......won 2 rings without them.

[moose40]

That's pretty much how I see it.  He's not going to be a Peyton or a Brady.  He just isn't.  But I think the possibility still exists that he'll be able to be an important player for the team going ahead.  But he will have to play better than he did last year.

That's not a bad thing to hope for. We just need him to be a leader, and make better decisions. If he can do that, with the development of the defense, the Bucs could get back to being a perennial playoff contentder, and once your at the dance, anything can happen

[jlr0714]

In Peyton Manning's 4th season he threw 23 picks against 26 TDs.      He made the transition to elite QB statistically in his 6 season (his first MVP season).    In his 4th year the Colts went 6-10 after going 10-6 the year before....including a 40-21 home loss against the 49ers in which Manning threw 4 picks...causing coach Mora to go off on his famous 'playoffs' rant.

In reality, it is rare that quarterbacks are 'elite' immediately...

[alldaway]

Rodgers put up elite numbers year 1, but then again that was his fourth NFL season.

[moose40]

In Peyton Manning's 4th season he threw 23 picks against 26 TDs.      He made the transition to elite QB statistically in his 6 season (his first MVP season).    In his 4th year the Colts went 6-10 after going 10-6 the year before....including a 40-21 home loss against the 49ers in which Manning threw 4 picks...causing coach Mora to go off on his famous 'playoffs' rant.

In reality, it is rare that quarterbacks are 'elite' immediately...

Manning also threw for 3700 yards 25 tds and 28 interceptions, while setting 5 rookie qb records in his rookie season. His star was bright right away
26 tds and over 4000 yards his second season,not to mention the pro bowl, You don't think he was deemed a top tier qb right away with stats like those?

[jlr0714]

He clearly showed a skill set that demonstrated great promise...which is not to say he wasn't still making mistakes as a young QB.   What frustrates me is how quickly TB fans are willing to turn on a 23 year old young man who demonstrated...over the course of an entire season...that he has promise.   It wasn't just a game or two...he played consistently well in 2010.  It's not as if the team continued to play well in 2011 and he stunk up the joint by himself.   Basically, I'm just asking our fan base to be reasonable and demonstrate some patience with the kid.