Todd McShay's Latest Mock 2.0

[Detrimental]

Pre-season ranking based on his 2009 season. You are pretending that it wasn't based on anything. Like they just pulled it out of their anus. He got that shine because he lit it up in 2009, just like Richardson did this season. Ingram's problem is that he had to do it two years in a row and couldn't. Richardson, on the other hand, has the option of leaving after one year as a starter. You can say all you want that his "eliteness" would have still shined through had he returned to Alabama this coming season, but everybody thought the same thing about Ingram.

Pre-season rankings are meaningless because they aren't accurate when it relates to the upcoming draft. I see where you based it from but to me, nobody really cares or goes by pre-season rankings.

If we are arguing this on the basis of your own point of view then there is no point to it. The fact is that Ingram was once deemed worthy of a top 10 selection. Even after his mediocre 2010 campaign where he had a knee injury and decreased production, he still entered the 2011 draft as a top 20 prospect, rated as high as the 13th on some draft boards. As much as you don't want to accept it, it is the truth.

#10 player in the draft = elite? Crazy. I swear, I learn something new from this board everyday. You said he wasn't a "can't miss prospect" like Richardson. Those don't sit at the end of the rankings at the bottom of the list, after their heisman campaign.

Fair enough. But the bottom line is that Spiller was drafted higher than many thought he should be. He had plus speed, but was lacking in a lot of other areas, and Ryan Matthews had a late 1st - early 2nd round grade and was drafted 12th overall. If Ingram was eligible for that draft, he's the 1st RB taken, and nobody would have blinked if it had been in the top 10.

Spiller's only concern was his size, he's not even listed at 200 pounds. However, that doesn't take away his ability from as a runner and a receiver. I don't think Ingram goes before either back to be honest. But that's all opinion and can't be really 'defined'.

[Feel Real Good]

And please show me a mock draft that has Ingram in the top 10 of a draft. I'll wait.

Honestly who gives a crap whether Richardson is or isn't "elite"? I'm willing to concede he's going to be the great RB in the history of the NFL, that's how meaningless I feel that point is. How is he going to help Freeman throw for 4000 yards? It's a passing league. 7 of the top 9 QB's in passing yards made the playoffs.

By making safeties creep up at the l.o.s and be a capable receiver a la Ray Rice.

And what makes you think our matador offensive linemen, non-blocking tight ends, and absentee fullbacks will make teams have to even commit 7 in the box, let alone 8?

[dalbuc]

And please show me a mock draft that has Ingram in the top 10 of a draft. I'll wait.

Honestly who gives a crap whether Richardson is or isn't "elite"? I'm willing to concede he's going to be the great RB in the history of the NFL, that's how meaningless I feel that point is. How is he going to help Freeman throw for 4000 yards? It's a passing league. 7 of the top 9 QB's in passing yards made the playoffs.

By making safeties creep up at the l.o.s and be a capable receiver a la Ray Rice.

And what makes you think our matador offensive linemen, non-blocking tight ends, and absentee fullbacks will make teams have to even commit 7 in the box, let alone 8?

It isn't even that, notice that for all Ray Rice and MJD's greatness they haven't saved their passing game? The idea that you can run to set up the pass, other than play action, is a joke. You don't need to be big play on running to run play action though. NO and NE both do a lot of work off play action and neither has a dynamic running game they just have an effective game.

[Detrimental]

Ray Rice has helped Flacco progress from year to year. So has Michael Turner with Ryan. So did LT with 2 QB's, so did James with Manning and Barber with Manning. I don't think none of you are being realistic. Like you want this 4,000 yard passer but he lacks play-making skill players to have that and then ignore a component of a playmaker because every weak excuse in the book. We're going in circles.

[Feel Real Good]

Ray Rice has helped Flacco progress from year to year. So has Michael Turner with Ryan. So did LT with 2 QB's, so did James with Manning and Barber with Manning. I don't think none of you are being realistic. Like you want this 4,000 yard passer but he lacks play-making skill players to have that and then ignore a component of a playmaker because every weak excuse in the book. We're going in circles.

No one is saying we don't want a quality RB. We just don't want to pay for one.

[dalbuc]

Ray Rice has helped Flacco progress from year to year. So has Michael Turner with Ryan. So did LT with 2 QB's, so did James with Manning and Barber with Manning. I don't think none of you are being realistic. Like you want this 4,000 yard passer but he lacks play-making skill players to have that and then ignore a component of a playmaker because every weak excuse in the book. We're going in circles.

Really because that is odd looking at Flacco how he hasn't much progressed. How did James help Manning?  He's been the same dude with and without him. LT clearly didn't help Brees much because Brees blew up when he got to RBBC NO.  Basically now you've been reduced to this and what your argument is now that you've lost on the "running to win" you are trying to claim that running backs make the passing game which is a farcical claim.  I'd rather have the NO/NE approach to running than the MIN approach.

[Detrimental]

Ray Rice has helped Flacco progress from year to year. So has Michael Turner with Ryan. So did LT with 2 QB's, so did James with Manning and Barber with Manning. I don't think none of you are being realistic. Like you want this 4,000 yard passer but he lacks play-making skill players to have that and then ignore a component of a playmaker because every weak excuse in the book. We're going in circles.

Really because that is odd looking at Flacco how he hasn't much progressed. How did James help Manning?  He's been the same dude with and without him. LT clearly didn't help Brees much because Brees blew up when he got to RBBC NO.  Basically now you've been reduced to this and what your argument is now that you've lost on the "running to win" you are trying to claim that running backs make the passing game which is a farcical claim.  I'd rather have the NO/NE approach to running than the MIN approach.

Manning like Flacco's numbers went UP as soon as they got him a very good RB in just about every category. Flacco hasn't progressed much your right, I should've said Matt Ryan. Ryan definitely has thanks to Turner. My point is, James was able to provide some insurance for Manning and if you disagree. Explain why his numbers dipped, (actually his worst year eve)r, when James went down in 2001? After posting a remarkable 2000 campaign with 33tds and 15int? I'll wait. Then in 2002 when James comes back to play 14 games, his numbers go UP again. Might I add James was coming off a serious knee injury and was STILL a key component to Manning's success.

Drew Brees at San Diego in his last two years posted.....

65% 3,159 yards 27 tds 7 int
64% 3,576 yards 25 tds 13 ints(this year had 100 more pass attempts)

He was already good before he got to New Orleans and LT was a huge part of him developing into the QB he is now. So there goes that theory.......Also, part of the reason why Marty got canned was because he stood up for Drew Brees to be the starting QB for the franchise. While the owner insisted that Rivers was to be 'that' guy. Marty wanted Brees heading forward, the owners wanted Rivers, and the rest was history. There's a reason why a great HC stood up for his god damn QB for god sakes.