Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Claiborne in contention for the fastest man at the combine « previous next »
Page: 1 ... 7 8 9

sunrisejeff

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 2240
Offline
« #120 : February 28, 2012, 08:38:34 PM »

Honestly that makes me even more impressed with how smooth he looked in his drills today then.
« : February 28, 2012, 08:41:41 PM sunrisejeff »

CBWx2

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 5920
Offline
« #121 : February 28, 2012, 08:44:55 PM »

Glad you brought up the Lions. Why didn't Suh, Avril, Vanden Bosch, and company make Eric Wright and Chris Houston look like top 10 CB's?
Because Suh is really the only really legit top 10 player at his position. In other words, your overrating their defensive line, plenty.

Second, the Lions were tossed on the 5th most in the NFL(#4 - Patriots, #3 - Saints, #2 - Bears, # 1 - Packers)

And allowed the #12 lowest QB rating.

All together, a high scoring offense typically leads to other teams playing catch-up. The Lions run defense was a bigger problem believe it or not moreso than their pass D.

Minnesota lead the NFL in sacks, and Kevin Williams and Jared Allen are top 10 caliber guys. Why didn't Cedric Griffin and Asher Allen look like top 10 DE's?
Maybe because they don't play defensive end????

The Vikings are a zone based defense. They don't run much man coverage. So Griffin and Allen man coverage ability can't accurately be depicted. Next question.

Typo. I'm sure you knew what I meant, as did everyone else.

Ronde Barber played zone for most of his career. I suppose he was never truly an elite CB because he didn't play in a man scheme.  ::)

You know good and well that the reason those guys sucked, and the reason the Lions CB's sucked was because they are sucky CB's. You know that them getting torched week in and week out has more to do with their suckatude than it does that they played in a zone scheme. If they didn't, those teams wouldn't be looking to replace them. Just admit that you are making things up as you go.


sunrisejeff

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 2240
Offline
« #122 : February 28, 2012, 08:50:43 PM »

Good pressure up front can make average corners look good and good corners look great. Bad corners will just look like bad corners though no matter how good the pressure is imo.

Detrimental

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 5980
Offline
« #123 : February 28, 2012, 09:59:38 PM »

Typo. I'm sure you knew what I meant, as did everyone else.

Ronde Barber played zone for most of his career. I suppose he was never truly an elite CB because he didn't play in a man scheme::)

You know good and well that the reason those guys sucked, and the reason the Lions CB's sucked was because they are sucky CB's. You know that them getting torched week in and week out has more to do with their suckatude than it does that they played in a zone scheme. If they didn't, those teams wouldn't be looking to replace them. Just admit that you are making things up as you go.
I'm making things up as I go? What did I make up? Please, elaborate. YOUR the one making things up. I'm still confused what in the hell was the point of the bold when I never said zone corners could not be elite players. Eric Wright is not a "sucky CB" he was actually solid for the Browns. Your Lions example was weak so please don't bring that up in regards to the Giants and Chiefs pass rush. And no, the Vikings are really a zone based defense. They NEVER play man coverage. You would know that if you were more knowledgeable about the game. And, really its hard to say how good their (Allen and Griffin) MAN coverage skills were with metrics since all they are responsible for is an area and not a player. Just admit you're clueless when it comes to football. Its obvious as hell. You casual fans are hilarious.






NYC BUC

*
Second String
***
Posts : 177
Offline
« #124 : February 28, 2012, 10:09:55 PM »

Guys, calm down about his 40yard time! Those of you who put too much stock in it make yourselves look foolish. Look at his tape, nobody runs by him! In Arkansas game Joe Adams 4.4 and Jairus Wright 4.41 he runs step for step all game!!!

MasterC25

*
Starter
****
Posts : 698
Offline
« #125 : February 28, 2012, 10:14:56 PM »

Guys, calm down about his 40yard time! Those of you who put too much stock in it make yourselves look foolish. Look at his tape, nobody runs by him! In Arkansas game Joe Adams 4.4 and Jairus Wright 4.41 he runs step for step all game!!!

Joe Adams is more quick than fast as proved by his 40 time of 4.55-4.58. Think Peter Warrick

CBWx2

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 5920
Offline
« #126 : February 28, 2012, 10:37:55 PM »

Typo. I'm sure you knew what I meant, as did everyone else.

Ronde Barber played zone for most of his career. I suppose he was never truly an elite CB because he didn't play in a man scheme::)

You know good and well that the reason those guys sucked, and the reason the Lions CB's sucked was because they are sucky CB's. You know that them getting torched week in and week out has more to do with their suckatude than it does that they played in a zone scheme. If they didn't, those teams wouldn't be looking to replace them. Just admit that you are making things up as you go.
I'm making things up as I go? What did I make up? Please, elaborate. YOUR the one making things up. I'm still confused what in the hell was the point of the bold when I never said zone corners could not be elite players. Eric Wright is not a "sucky CB" he was actually solid for the Browns. Your Lions example was weak so please don't bring that up in regards to the Giants and Chiefs pass rush.

The Lions were tied for 9th in the NFL in sacks. The Chiefs were tied for 27th. They had 6 more sacks on the season than the 32nd ranked Buccaneers did. One would think that if you were going to use the "pass rush makes corners look better" argument, you would actually use a good pass rushing team to illustrate it.

And no, the Vikings are really a zone based defense. They NEVER play man coverage. You would know that if you were more knowledgeable about the game. And, really its hard to say how good their (Allen and Griffin) MAN coverage skills were with metrics since all they are responsible for is an area and not a player. Just admit you're clueless when it comes to football. Its obvious as hell. You casual fans are hilarious.

Who gives a crap about their man vs zone skills? Are they capable of performing what's asked of them or aren't they? You are using qualifiers to make an argument that means nothing in terms of the topic of discussion. Good CB's are capable of making plays in either. If the Vikings or the Lions thought they had good CB's, they wouldn't be looking to upgrade the position, correct? A good pass rush makes a good CB's job easier, but it doesn't make a bad CB look like a good one. That's why the Lions and Vikings got lit up this year, and that's why both will be drafting CB's early.

I know you are the expert on all things football and what not,  ::) but don't make crap up just because you want to justify taking a RB in the 5 spot when we already have one.


Detrimental

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 5980
Offline
« #127 : February 28, 2012, 10:51:15 PM »

The Lions were tied for 9th in the NFL in sacks. The Cheifs were tied for 27th. They had 6 more sacks on the season than the 32nd ranked Buccaneers did. One would think that if you were going to use the "pass rush makes corners look better" argument, you would actually use a good pass rushing team to illustrate it.

Who gives a crap about their man vs zone skills?Are they capable of performing what's asked of them or aren't they? You are using qualifiers to make an argument that means nothing in terms of the topic of discussion. Good CB's are capable of making plays in either. If the Vikings or the Lions thought they had good CB's, they wouldn't be looking to upgrade the position, correct? A good pass rush makes a good CB's job easier, but it doesn't make a bad CB look like a good one. That's why the Lions and Vikings got lit up this year, and that's why both will be drafting CB's early.

I know you are the expert on all things football and what not,  ::) but don't make crap up just because you want to justify taking a RB in the 5 spot when we already have one.
Sacks aren't the only indicator for a good pass rush. Since you got all the numbers, how many pressures did the Chiefs record this year?

A scheme means a lot in terms of how to measure a players performance compared to the rest of the league. You brought up the Vikings secondary that use a ZONE pass defense. Which means, their pass defense is held accountable for their linebackers and safeties. Which also means its a HORRIBLE example to sit here and try to discredit Allen and Griffin because they are not SOLEY responsible for that pass defense playing so terrible.

Already stated I would be content with Claiborne pick. Your conjecture on this whole thing is pretty off based considering this conversation had nothing to do with the RB pick. But good job, keep making things up.


CBWx2

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 5920
Offline
« #128 : February 29, 2012, 12:43:49 AM »

The Lions were tied for 9th in the NFL in sacks. The Cheifs were tied for 27th. They had 6 more sacks on the season than the 32nd ranked Buccaneers did. One would think that if you were going to use the "pass rush makes corners look better" argument, you would actually use a good pass rushing team to illustrate it.

Who gives a crap about their man vs zone skills?Are they capable of performing what's asked of them or aren't they? You are using qualifiers to make an argument that means nothing in terms of the topic of discussion. Good CB's are capable of making plays in either. If the Vikings or the Lions thought they had good CB's, they wouldn't be looking to upgrade the position, correct? A good pass rush makes a good CB's job easier, but it doesn't make a bad CB look like a good one. That's why the Lions and Vikings got lit up this year, and that's why both will be drafting CB's early.

I know you are the expert on all things football and what not,  ::) but don't make crap up just because you want to justify taking a RB in the 5 spot when we already have one.
Sacks aren't the only indicator for a good pass rush. Since you got all the numbers, how many pressures did the Chiefs record this year?

A scheme means a lot in terms of how to measure a players performance compared to the rest of the league. You brought up the Vikings secondary that use a ZONE pass defense. Which means, their pass defense is held accountable for their linebackers and safeties. Which also means its a HORRIBLE example to sit here and try to discredit Allen and Griffin because they are not SOLEY responsible for that pass defense playing so terrible.

Already stated I would be content with Claiborne pick. Your conjecture on this whole thing is pretty off based considering this conversation had nothing to do with the RB pick. But good job, keep making things up.

Not a PFF premium member, as I assume you are. I do know that the Chiefs got to the QB 62 times, 25 of them coming from Tamba Hali. Detroit, on the other hand, got to the QB 71 times, 9 of which came from Suh. Unless you have some stat to contradict this, then I can't imagine that the Chiefs were head and shoulders above the Lions in terms of pass rushing.

Also, explain to me why, in your mind, a pass rush helps coverage in a man scheme, but doesn't in a zone scheme?


The Anti-Java

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 22211
Offline
« #129 : February 29, 2012, 01:06:28 AM »

I was a little surprised to find out Claiborne is only 5-11.   He  is an inch shorter that Patrick Peterson and 20lbs lighter.


sig pic by chace1986

PewterReportMC....
\\\\\\\"Java, do you understand this a perfect example of why people beg me to suspend or ban you on a daily basis? Are you actually trying to make a point? Seriously what is the reason for even commenting. In fact why do you even bother coming to the boards? What happened to the intelligent poster from years ago?  A real shame. Like the Bucs yesterday, a wasted effort.\\\\\\\"

MUSCLE_HAMSTER

User is on moderator watch listWatched
*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 8047
Offline
« #130 : February 29, 2012, 02:54:57 AM »

I was a little surprised to find out Claiborne is only 5-11.   He  is an inch shorter that Patrick Peterson and 20lbs lighter.
And he's got longer arms and better coverage skills


Dolorous Jason

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 15434
Online
« #131 : February 29, 2012, 07:35:33 AM »

I was a little surprised to find out Claiborne is only 5-11.   He  is an inch shorter that Patrick Peterson and 20lbs lighter.
And he's got longer arms and better coverage skills

Claiborne has excellent ball skills also. If the ball comes near him he has hands and the ability to make a play on it like a WR. It's one of the things that makes him so dangerous. It doesn't concern me that he;s a little smaller than his former teammate...


What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Detrimental

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 5980
Offline
« #132 : February 29, 2012, 09:28:51 AM »

Not a PFF premium member, as I assume you are. I do know that the Chiefs got to the QB 62 times, 25 of them coming from Tamba Hali. Detroit, on the other hand, got to the QB 71 times, 9 of which came from Suh. Unless you have some stat to contradict this, then I can't imagine that the Chiefs were head and shoulders above the Lions in terms of pass rushing.

Also, explain to me why, in your mind, a pass rush helps coverage in a man scheme, but doesn't in a zone scheme?
I'm not either. Yes, the Lions probably had more pressures than the Chiefs this year. Does that mean they were better, absolutely not. The Chiefs had the fewest pass attempts on in the NFL with 452 while the Lions had 604(#5 in the NFL). Now think about that number for a second. The Lions had 152 more pass rush opportunities than the Chiefs and only had 9 more pressures? Now, to sit here and say the Lions had a better pass rush would be foolish considering that. Hali and Suh play different positions, its much harder for Suh to tally up on those type of numbers.

That's not what I'm inferring. It helps in either scheme. I'm trying to tell you that you can't fairly pinpoint two players on why a pass defense was terrible like the Vikings zone pass defense when Allen+Griffin are really only responsible for an area. And to be honest, we don't even have their metrics to judge them off how well they did in zone. In comparison to a team like Tampa, it'd be a much more credible conjecture since we played man coverage all the time to see how bad Talib+Barber were.
« : February 29, 2012, 09:34:44 AM Detrimental »

1Va bucsfan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 3828
Online
« #133 : February 29, 2012, 09:38:30 AM »

Morris Claiborne - DB - Player
LSU CB Morris Claiborne "very much figures into the draft deliberations at Rams Park," according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
The Rams desperately need a talent infusion in the secondary. If the team's brass decides Claiborne is their man, it's a decided advantage for the Browns over the Redskins in RGIII trade talks. The Bucs, drafting at No. 5, now employ Claiborne's DBs coach from LSU on Greg Schiano's staff.
Related: Rams
Source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch

After trading down, Rams may target Morris Claiborne

Posted by Michael David Smith on February 29, 2012, 8:25 AM EST

AP
The Rams are all but certain to trade out of the No. 2 pick in the NFL draft and receive extra selections from some team that wants Robert Griffin III. But after they make their trade, who will they pick?

It may be LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne.

Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that Claiborne very much figures into the Rams’ draft discussions and could be the man they’re hoping to take after they trade out of the second pick.

It’s easy to see why the Rams would want to add a player like Claiborne, who entered the Combine widely regarded as the top cornerback in the draft, and had a good enough showing not to change that. Among the Rams’ cornerbacks last season, Al Harris is retiring, Justin King could leave via free agency, and Ron Bartell, Bradley Fletcher and Jerome Murphy all suffered season-ending injuries in 2011. Cornerback is a position the Rams would like to upgrade.

The problem, of course, is that the Rams have no way of knowing that Claiborne will still be available after they trade down. If they were to trade with the Browns at No. 4 it’s likely that Claiborne would be there, but any further down than that and it’s entirely possible that Claiborne would be off the board.

The reality is that in February, any projection of how the draft is going to play out is little more than guesswork. But if you want to take a guess about what kind of player the Rams would like to get after they trade out of the second pick, Claiborne isn’t a bad bet.

\\\"The guy who invented the first wheel was an idiot, the guy who invented the other three, he was a genius

Detrimental

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 5980
Offline
« #134 : February 29, 2012, 09:44:06 AM »

Ron Bartell is a good #1 CB but he is already 30. Wouldn't be a bad idea to pair him up with Claiborne and have him take over as #1 in a few years. That being said, with the Rams already having a good #1, I doubt they pull the trigger on Claiborne at #2. A trade down, they most definitely would.
  Page: 1 ... 7 8 9
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Claiborne in contention for the fastest man at the combine « previous next »
:  

Hide Tools Show Tools