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mgchat76

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#15 : February 23, 2012, 12:35:52 PM

Philip Rivers had a crappy season, should SD release him?  Eli threw 25 INT's in 2010, should he have been benched?  EVERYONE thought that Alex Smith shouldn't be in the league after the last few seasons, but the right right coaching staff and gameplanning helped him lead his team to the NFC championship (with some pretty mediocre WR's).

Freeman had a bad year, everyone on the team did.  That doesn't mean he doesn't have the talent, work ethic, and skillset to improve.  He deserves AT LEAST one more season to see if he can improve.

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#16 : February 23, 2012, 12:44:14 PM

I can't think of one person who put (or even could put) a positive spin on Freeman's 2011 performance. So yes.
: February 23, 2012, 12:50:31 PM anterrabae33

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#17 : February 23, 2012, 12:46:20 PM

... with respect to Freeman, he's not even "good" yet.

Guys that "aren't even good yet" don't LEAD you to 10-win seasons.  Period.  And Freeman singlehandedly put this team on his back and carried them to 5 of the 10 wins.  Fact.

Especially when HALF of the 10 wins are directly ralated to the performance, and therefore the credit must also be given, to the QB who got us to 10 wins in 2010...

For those acting like the jury's still out on Freeman...  You're clueless.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.
I'm game 37...  First, let's define "good".  "Good", as far as I'm concerned, is a QB who proves he's got the wherewithall to to HIS job.  Not every players job - but HIS job.

"Good" won't land you in the playoffs.
"Good" mandates you have the ability to win.  Taking a team full of piss-ant, fire-spitting, KIDS to a 10-win season can't be tossed aside as if it never happened/doesn't matter.  It did, and it does.
"Good" means you have the ability to at least overcome adversity.  With the SIX 4th quarter come-from-behind wins (out of 16 wins), I think he's answered that amply.
"Good" means you can put up over 3,500 yards and a TD/Int ratio in the 25/6 neiborhood.

"Agree to disagree" all ya want to 37..........  These aren't opinions...  They're FACTS.

Although it's usually impossible to sway someone from their personal opinions - especially when the opinions formed are based more on hunches and gut feelings than FACTUAL data - but...  It is what it is.

Am I saying that he should be fitted for a gold jacket anytime soon?  No.

Based on size, strength, and performance(s) that are well documented, how anyone can say that Freeman isn't already among the upper half of the leagues QBs is beyond me.

Couple that with the FACT that Freeman was hindered by having what could easily be considered one of the worst coaching staffs/support systems in NFL history, much less Buccaneer history - and that's pretty damneed INEPT - and Freeman may well be among the best QBs in the league...!

If I see a well-coached team, with a truly balanced attack, that LOSES because Freeman performs poorly...  I'll want his balls served poached for breakfast.

Maybe we should have this discussion when we win in spite of Freeman - as opposed to losing due to his personal poor performance.

Let me know when HE is the problem.  Not the guy who masks the stench of piss-poor coaching, game-planning, and play calling.

Fair enough?

I'll give everyone something to chew on regarding Freeman...  Name the game in which we LOST the game due to Freeman performing poorly.  You know... the game in which we were firmly "in control" of the game, held the lead at half time, but failed to close the deal due to something Freeman either did, or didn't do...???

I won't hold my breath...


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#18 : February 23, 2012, 12:56:06 PM

PM me if you want hear what Freeman's "preperation" was like during the season. I have a little bit of insiders info.



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#19 : February 23, 2012, 01:03:07 PM

His preparation isn't an issue to me, whatever it was.  That was as much the coaching staff and front office's fault.  He's a 23 year old kid.  He needs some structure and discipline, and someone to show him how to properly prepare.  Was he skipping meetings, drinking every night, or performing dangerous motorcycle stunts?

TBayXXXVII

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#20 : February 23, 2012, 01:04:30 PM

I'm game 37...  First, let's define "good".  "Good", as far as I'm concerned, is a QB who proves he's got the wherewithall to to HIS job.  Not every players job - but HIS job.

"Good" won't land you in the playoffs.
"Good" mandates you have the ability to win.  Taking a team full of piss-ant, fire-spitting, KIDS to a 10-win season can't be tossed aside as if it never happened/doesn't matter.  It did, and it does.
"Good" means you have the ability to at least overcome adversity.  With the SIX 4th quarter come-from-behind wins (out of 16 wins), I think he's answered that amply.
"Good" means you can put up over 3,500 yards and a TD/Int ratio in the 25/6 neiborhood.

"Agree to disagree" all ya want to 37..........  These aren't opinions...  They're FACTS.

Although it's usually impossible to sway someone from their personal opinions - especially when the opinions formed are based more on hunches and gut feelings than FACTUAL data - but...  It is what it is.

Am I saying that he should be fitted for a gold jacket anytime soon?  No.

Based on size, strength, and performance(s) that are well documented, how anyone can say that Freeman isn't already among the upper half of the leagues QBs is beyond me.

Couple that with the FACT that Freeman was hindered by having what could easily be considered one of the worst coaching staffs/support systems in NFL history, much less Buccaneer history - and that's pretty damneed INEPT - and Freeman may well be among the best QBs in the league...!

If I see a well-coached team, with a truly balanced attack, that LOSES because Freeman performs poorly...  I'll want his balls served poached for breakfast.

Maybe we should have this discussion when we win in spite of Freeman - as opposed to losing due to his personal poor performance.

Let me know when HE is the problem.  Not the guy who masks the stench of piss-poor coaching, game-planning, and play calling.

Fair enough?

I'll give everyone something to chew on regarding Freeman...  Name the game in which we LOST the game due to Freeman performing poorly.  You know... the game in which we were firmly "in control" of the game, held the lead at half time, but failed to close the deal due to something Freeman either did, or didn't do...???

I won't hold my breath...

To me, "Good" = Jay Cutler, Matt Hasselbeck, Matt Ryan, Alex Smith.

Freeman isn't as good as any of them.  Hence, Freeman isn't good.

Pepsi

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#21 : February 23, 2012, 01:06:44 PM

BucsFTW, you can like Freeman and think he'll bounce back next season and be great, idk maybe your his father or something. Thats all fine. The kid was horrible last season. 80% of it had nothing to do with anything but himself and just simply throwing the ball really poorly. Like I've mentioned here a dozen times, it was evident before the season in training camp. In all 5 practices I went to, Freeman was throwing the ball at the feet of receivers, over them, behind them, he just sucked at throwing the ball, At even wrote a review of the practices and mention all the good stuff and the suprise negative was Freeman looked horrible. He didn't look horrible because Raheem and Olson had a bad practice plan... trust me. Josh Johnson actually took his snaps and threw the ball way better, Did Olson use him correctly? hell no, but Freeman was flat out bad, no excuses.



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#22 : February 23, 2012, 01:11:45 PM

He kind of gets a pass. But you can name several reasons for giving him a pass. I also think Rah screwed him mentally. He kept running around saying its all about 5. We're on his sholders. We only go as 5 goes. Then you get players like Faine and Penn saying we'll go as far as 5 takes us, and just a ton of similar other things. Not only do you blow up Freemans ego, you put a ton of pressure on him. He was out there pressing the entire season. From day 1 forcing throws left and right.
: February 23, 2012, 01:16:42 PM buchead

mgchat76

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#23 : February 23, 2012, 01:15:15 PM

Josh Freeman 2011 - 22 INT's, 74.6 rating
Jay Cutler 2009 - 26 INT's, 76.8 rating
Matt Hasselback 2010 - 17 INT's, 73.2 rating
Alex Smith 2006 (his last full season) - 16 INT, 74.8 rating

All of your "good" Qb's have had bad seasons, except for Matty Ice.  Yet, you still consider them good?  Why is it such a stretch to think that Freeman could bounce back with better coaching, gameplanning, and improved preparation?

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#24 : February 23, 2012, 01:18:11 PM

Freeman is average at this point in his career. Hopefully for our team, he will develop into a good QB.

mgchat76

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#25 : February 23, 2012, 01:20:09 PM

BucsFTW, you can like Freeman and think he'll bounce back next season and be great, idk maybe your his father or something. Thats all fine. The kid was horrible last season. 80% of it had nothing to do with anything but himself and just simply throwing the ball really poorly. Like I've mentioned here a dozen times, it was evident before the season in training camp. In all 5 practices I went to, Freeman was throwing the ball at the feet of receivers, over them, behind them, he just sucked at throwing the ball, At even wrote a review of the practices and mention all the good stuff and the suprise negative was Freeman looked horrible. He didn't look horrible because Raheem and Olson had a bad practice plan... trust me. Josh Johnson actually took his snaps and threw the ball way better, Did Olson use him correctly? hell no, but Freeman was flat out bad, no excuses.
How were his practices last season?  Did he have the same issue throwing the ball then?  I'm not arguing with you, just trying to understand why he was so bad at the practices you watched and throughout the season.

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#26 : February 23, 2012, 01:20:11 PM

He kind of gets a pass. But you can name several reasons for giving him a pass. I also think Rah screwed him mentally. He kept running around saying its all about 5. We're on his sholders. We only go as 5 goes. Then you get players like Faine and Penn saying we'll go as far as 5 takes us, and just a ton of similar other things. Not only do you blow up Freemans ego, you put a ton of pressure on him. He was out their pressing the entire season. From day 1 forcing throws left and right.

So what you're saying is that because you draft a guy in the first rd to be the leader of you team and franchise... and you actually tell him what you expect from him, that's a problem?  Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.  Also, to add to Pepsi's point, wasn't it Freeman who got all (most really - all was his hope), the offensive talent in the offseason together?  Didn't they practice (so to speak), run plays... et all, and was illegally in contact with his head coach?  Wasn't it those same people who came out and stunk all year?  My overall question is, if they really did put in that extra offseason work, how come they ALL looked totally clueless all year long?  I don't want to hear this coaching crap either.  It's the same group that got them to 10-6 the year before.  Either the 10-6 season was a fluke or the coaching staff wasn't the problem.  Can't have it both ways.

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#27 : February 23, 2012, 01:27:49 PM

BucsFTW, you can like Freeman and think he'll bounce back next season and be great, idk maybe your his father or something. Thats all fine. The kid was horrible last season. 80% of it had nothing to do with anything but himself and just simply throwing the ball really poorly. Like I've mentioned here a dozen times, it was evident before the season in training camp. In all 5 practices I went to, Freeman was throwing the ball at the feet of receivers, over them, behind them, he just sucked at throwing the ball, At even wrote a review of the practices and mention all the good stuff and the suprise negative was Freeman looked horrible. He didn't look horrible because Raheem and Olson had a bad practice plan... trust me. Josh Johnson actually took his snaps and threw the ball way better, Did Olson use him correctly? hell no, but Freeman was flat out bad, no excuses.
How were his practices last season?  Did he have the same issue throwing the ball then?  I'm not arguing with you, just trying to understand why he was so bad at the practices you watched and throughout the season.
I didn't watch throughout the season,  just before the season at OneBuc Place. Some other posters here had the same concern, I think Hate was at some of them and noticed too... not sure though, maybe if he reads this he can confirm. Well anyway it was very simple. When Freeman through a ball he was pretty consistent at being off target. It would get overshadowed with the media and posters here praising an amazing deep pass to Mike Williams or something like that, but the truth was Freeman was throwing the ball all over the place. JJ on the other hand made the most of his snaps and was showing good accuracy, but he's still timid and sometimes scared to throw a certain pass. Freeman's confidence was fine but his accuracy was below average, as it was during the regular season. Idk about everyone else here but I don't think your a good QB when your accuracy is below average.



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#28 : February 23, 2012, 01:28:05 PM

No the jury is stil out bro. If he wouldn't have been such a terd in the begining of games we wouldn't have had to come back in the forth quarter of so many that year. He always waits until the forth quarter tostart doing anything. He needs to turn it on this year at the start of games. Great QB's play well  all game, not just the forth quarter.

Yo Sharps...  You're one of the FEW who actually talks football without all the chest-pounding, e-thug, keyboard warrior attitude.  Let's talk.

Maybe...  Just maybe, IF the Bucs entered a game with a game plan that didn't put them in an early hole - Freeman wouldn't HAVE TO lead us to the 6 comebacks he DID.  The FACT that he is capable of doing so should speak volumes.

Freeman didn't "wait" until the 4th quarter to "start doing anything".  Playing from behind caused Olson to open up the playbook and it was FREEMAN who executed, as required, to provide those comebacks.

"Great QBs play well all game" IF they are provided a solid game plan.  How many times did the "game plan" get tossed out the window and the onus was placed squarely on Freeman's shoulders?

Based on how many times that predictably happened, I'd hardly be able to fairly say "the jury's still out" on him.


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#29 : February 23, 2012, 01:30:06 PM

BucsFTW, you can like Freeman and think he'll bounce back next season and be great, idk maybe your his father or something. Thats all fine. The kid was horrible last season. 80% of it had nothing to do with anything but himself and just simply throwing the ball really poorly. Like I've mentioned here a dozen times, it was evident before the season in training camp. In all 5 practices I went to, Freeman was throwing the ball at the feet of receivers, over them, behind them, he just sucked at throwing the ball, At even wrote a review of the practices and mention all the good stuff and the suprise negative was Freeman looked horrible. He didn't look horrible because Raheem and Olson had a bad practice plan... trust me. Josh Johnson actually took his snaps and threw the ball way better, Did Olson use him correctly? hell no, but Freeman was flat out bad, no excuses.

He looked bad all last year pretty much. I still think he has the ability to turn it around. He will have that opportunity this year. Remember as well, Freeman doesnt necessarily have a free pass anymore because the staff/regime that drafted him is gone. He has to prove to these people that hes the franchise QB or they could easily say hes not what they want. Which is not what the bucs want to happen. They would rather Freeman be the guy and show that hes the guy. However if he shows anything but that he could easily be replaced. Lets just hope it doesnt get to that.
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