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TBayXXXVII

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#30 : February 23, 2012, 01:53:13 PM

No the jury is stil out bro. If he wouldn't have been such a terd in the begining of games we wouldn't have had to come back in the forth quarter of so many that year. He always waits until the forth quarter tostart doing anything. He needs to turn it on this year at the start of games. Great QB's play well  all game, not just the forth quarter.

Yo Sharps...  You're one of the FEW who actually talks football without all the chest-pounding, e-thug, keyboard warrior attitude.  Let's talk.

Maybe...  Just maybe, IF the Bucs entered a game with a game plan that didn't put them in an early hole - Freeman wouldn't HAVE TO lead us to the 6 comebacks he DID.  The FACT that he is capable of doing so should speak volumes.

Freeman didn't "wait" until the 4th quarter to "start doing anything".  Playing from behind caused Olson to open up the playbook and it was FREEMAN who executed, as required, to provide those comebacks.

"Great QBs play well all game" IF they are provided a solid game plan.  How many times did the "game plan" get tossed out the window and the onus was placed squarely on Freeman's shoulders?

Based on how many times that predictably happened, I'd hardly be able to fairly say "the jury's still out" on him.

I want to make sure I totally understand what you're saying here.

When you say: "IF the Bucs entered a game with a game plan that didn't put them in an early hole - Freeman wouldn't HAVE TO lead us to the 6 comebacks he DID"  -  You're saying that the play caller (Olson), was the ONLY reason the team got behind early, and that it wasn't Freeman's fault that Freeman couldn't read a defense and call the right audible? 

When you say: "Playing from behind caused Olson to open up the playbook and it was FREEMAN who executed"  -  You mean that the Bucs should have a pass only offense because that's the only way Freeman can move the ball?  I ask that because when teams are down, they really don't run the ball a lot.

When you say: " 'Great QBs play well all game' IF they are provided a solid game plan."  -  You're saying that the only way Freeman can succeed at his fullest potetial is that he MUST have a coach who is perfect at gameplanning?

Basically, Freeman was at his best in his 40 starts when the defense was in prevent mode and not really trying to stop the play, just make it take longer.  Basically, he's a slower / taller version of Tim Tebow.

BucsFTW

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#31 : February 23, 2012, 01:54:19 PM

So what you're saying is that because you draft a guy in the first rd to be the leader of you team and franchise... and you actually tell him what you expect from him, that's a problem?  Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.

Nor I, 37...




Also, to add to Pepsi's point, wasn't it Freeman who got all (most really - all was his hope), the offensive talent in the offseason together?  Didn't they practice (so to speak), run plays... et all, and was illegally in contact with his head coach?  Wasn't it those same people who came out and stunk all year?
My overall question is, if they really did put in that extra offseason work, how come they ALL looked totally clueless all year long?  I don't want to hear this coaching crap either.
A 23 year old kid...  getting a few of his offensive players together in non-sanctioned, sand lot quality "let's throw the ball around a bit" is a far cry from a training camp with almost 100 players participating.  It's NOT an excuse.  It's called a REASON.

Do you really think that a dozen guys getting together, in which the most they could only hope to achieve is some level of "timing" between QB & receiver, is somehow even close to an NFL-level training camp session?




It's the same group that got them to 10-6 the year before.  Either the 10-6 season was a fluke or the coaching staff wasn't the problem.  Can't have it both ways.
Ya sure...?  Are we talking about the same 10-win team that had to have their QB lead them to comebacks in FIVE of those 10 wins?

If Freeman doesn't pull those comebacks out of his arse, we're talking about a 5-11 team in 2010.  Right...?

Can't have it both ways...  Huh?


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#32 : February 23, 2012, 01:57:15 PM

BucsFTW, you can like Freeman and think he'll bounce back next season and be great, idk maybe your his father or something. Thats all fine. The kid was horrible last season. 80% of it had nothing to do with anything but himself and just simply throwing the ball really poorly. Like I've mentioned here a dozen times, it was evident before the season in training camp. In all 5 practices I went to, Freeman was throwing the ball at the feet of receivers, over them, behind them, he just sucked at throwing the ball, At even wrote a review of the practices and mention all the good stuff and the suprise negative was Freeman looked horrible. He didn't look horrible because Raheem and Olson had a bad practice plan... trust me. Josh Johnson actually took his snaps and threw the ball way better, Did Olson use him correctly? hell no, but Freeman was flat out bad, no excuses.

Not sure how you quantify this. You have a game plan that was predictable. You have receivers running wrong routes. You have receivers dropping balls. You have route combinations that mystify any one who knows the game. You have numerous ints that hit receivers hands first. MW against Chicago not only lost the ball but took away a td.  I honestly don't what percentage was his fault, but I doubt that it is anywhere near 80%.  As far as accuracy, he still completed 62% of his passes for 3500 yards in 15 starts. I know he had check downs but he also had deeper passes dropped.

TBayXXXVII

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#33 : February 23, 2012, 02:03:17 PM

A 23 year old kid...  getting a few of his offensive players together in non-sanctioned, sand lot quality "let's throw the ball around a bit" is a far cry from a training camp with almost 100 players participating.  It's NOT an excuse.  It's called a REASON.

Do you really think that a dozen guys getting together, in which the most they could only hope to achieve is some level of "timing" between QB & receiver, is somehow even close to an NFL-level training camp session?

This right here, is the only thing I expected to come out of those practices... I didn't see one tiny bit of evidence that even reflected the slightest improvement in that area.


Ya sure...?  Are we talking about the same 10-win team that had to have their QB lead them to comebacks in FIVE of those 10 wins?

If Freeman doesn't pull those comebacks out of his arse, we're talking about a 5-11 team in 2010.  Right...?

Can't have it both ways...  Huh?

It is my opinion (and most NFL "experts"), that EVERY single QB in the NFL... that includes Curtis Painter, Rex Grossman, Tim Tebow, Joe Flacco, and alike... could sit in a pocket against a no-rush / zone defense and pick them apart all the way down the field... especially against bad teams.  Now, the slightly better QB's like Freeman, can put that ball in the end zone, unlike Curtis Painter and Rex Grossman.  But, saying that Freeman is only slightly better than those 2 isn't really all that promising.
: February 23, 2012, 02:04:58 PM TBayXXXVII

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#34 : February 23, 2012, 02:05:30 PM

Basically, he's a slower / taller version of Tim Tebow.

I've never laughed and threw up at the same time before...can check that off the bucket list now.


BucBalla85

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#35 : February 23, 2012, 02:05:46 PM

BucsFTW, you can like Freeman and think he'll bounce back next season and be great, idk maybe your his father or something. Thats all fine. The kid was horrible last season. 80% of it had nothing to do with anything but himself and just simply throwing the ball really poorly. Like I've mentioned here a dozen times, it was evident before the season in training camp. In all 5 practices I went to, Freeman was throwing the ball at the feet of receivers, over them, behind them, he just sucked at throwing the ball, At even wrote a review of the practices and mention all the good stuff and the suprise negative was Freeman looked horrible. He didn't look horrible because Raheem and Olson had a bad practice plan... trust me. Josh Johnson actually took his snaps and threw the ball way better, Did Olson use him correctly? hell no, but Freeman was flat out bad, no excuses.

Not sure how you quantify this. You have a game plan that was predictable. You have receivers running wrong routes. You have receivers dropping balls. You have route combinations that mystify any one who knows the game. You have numerous ints that hit receivers hands first. MW against Chicago not only lost the ball but took away a td.  I honestly don't what percentage was his fault, but I doubt that it is anywhere near 80%.  As far as accuracy, he still completed 62% of his passes for 3500 yards in 15 starts. I know he had check downs but he also had deeper passes dropped.

Agree Oldbuc. Not much went his way but he didnt help himself either. I just think its still too early to tell with him. I dont think you can move on from him yet and I dont think you can name him our long term QB yet. I understand both sides of the argument. Just think we will know more this year.

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#36 : February 23, 2012, 02:16:11 PM

BucsFTW, you can like Freeman and think he'll bounce back next season and be great, idk maybe your his father or something.
Grow up kid...  You don't have to be a kid's father to evaluate his capabilities.





80% of it had nothing to do with anything but himself and just simply throwing the ball really poorly.
80%...?  The fact that you attempt to quantify that with a percentage speaks volumes.  Or, should I say - doesn't.





In all 5 practices I went to, Freeman was throwing the ball at the feet of receivers, over them, behind them, he just sucked at throwing the ball, At even wrote a review of the practices and mention all the good stuff and the suprise negative was Freeman looked horrible.
So... Quarterback whisperer...  You were able to glean that from 5 practices?  Okay...  **SMH**





He didn't look horrible because Raheem and Olson had a bad practice plan... trust me.
No.  Isn't it common knowledge, and well-documented, that Heemy/Olly ran some of the most slipshod, loose, undisciplined practices some of these players had ever seen?  There are direct player quotes available.  Research it.




Josh Johnson actually took his snaps and threw the ball way better, Did Olson use him correctly? hell no, but Freeman was flat out bad, no excuses.
Credibility lost...!

What the hell was Olly supposed to do, especially in a strike-shortened preseaon?  Bench Freeman in favor of Johnson...?  Brilliant.  Let me guess......  You were among the "War Bruce" crowd...?

LMFAO.


BucBalla85

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#37 : February 23, 2012, 02:22:32 PM

While its obvious some just dont like Freeman and want him replaced. (Pepsi, bucfan40, just to name a few) Freeman wasnt great last year and thats obvious to everybody who watched. What is guaranteed imo is that Freeman will have his shot to prove to everybody that last season was the fluke and that 2010 was the "real" Freeman. Hopefully the people who dont like Freeman are rooting for him to succeed. Getting another QB now sets us back because we have so many other needs and Freeman is still very young and learning. He deserves his chance and he will get it. Whether people like him or dislike him.

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#38 : February 23, 2012, 02:27:01 PM

He kind of gets a pass. But you can name several reasons for giving him a pass. I also think Rah screwed him mentally. He kept running around saying its all about 5. We're on his sholders. We only go as 5 goes. Then you get players like Faine and Penn saying we'll go as far as 5 takes us, and just a ton of similar other things. Not only do you blow up Freemans ego, you put a ton of pressure on him. He was out there pressing the entire season. From day 1 forcing throws left and right.

You're right on throwing to guys that weren't open but I blame Olsen, just seemed like he didn't run and improvise as much, like he would have running space and still throw the ball at the last second like he was being told to not run.

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#39 : February 23, 2012, 02:28:40 PM

Something else that could have been a problem was he could have been playing injured for most of 2011. He didnt run as much as he did. Me thinks he didnt want to risk further injury so it held him back a bit.

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#40 : February 23, 2012, 02:29:44 PM

Not sure how you quantify this. You have a game plan that was predictable. You have receivers running wrong routes. You have receivers dropping balls. You have route combinations that mystify any one who knows the game. You have numerous ints that hit receivers hands first. MW against Chicago not only lost the ball but took away a td.  I honestly don't what percentage was his fault, but I doubt that it is anywhere near 80%.  As far as accuracy, he still completed 62% of his passes for 3500 yards in 15 starts. I know he had check downs but he also had deeper passes dropped.

Hold on just one minute there, you old coot...

Where in the hell do you think you're going to get using LOGIC here?


MUSCLE_HAMSTER

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#41 : February 23, 2012, 02:30:36 PM

Half the board is saying move on and get a different QB.


BucsFTW

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#42 : February 23, 2012, 02:41:53 PM

Hopefully the people who dont like Freeman are rooting for him to succeed.

Sadly, for the tiny-minded, small-pee pee'd, non-Bucs fans, they aren't.

The unfortunate truth is this...

Some will be happier pounding their proverbial chests saying "I told you so" - actually hoping he FAILS miserably, as opposed to giving the kid the shot he IS going to get, and actually hoping they be proved wrong - all in the name of the Bucs winning.

I so try to recognize these "small, furry, cat-like creature" types BEFORE engaging in football related discussions...


BucBalla85

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#43 : February 23, 2012, 02:45:57 PM

Half the board is saying move on and get a different QB.

Doesn't really matter what the board wants. It's about what Freeman does this year with his chance as starter.

BucBalla85

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#44 : February 23, 2012, 02:47:49 PM

Hopefully the people who dont like Freeman are rooting for him to succeed.

Sadly, for the tiny-minded, small-pee pee'd, non-Bucs fans, they aren't.

The unfortunate truth is this...

Some will be happier pounding their proverbial chests saying "I told you so" - actually hoping he FAILS miserably, as opposed to giving the kid the shot he IS going to get, and actually hoping they be proved wrong - all in the name of the Bucs winning.

I so try to recognize these "small, furry, cat-like creature" types BEFORE engaging in football related discussions...

I know. That's unfortunate too.
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