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MUSCLE_HAMSTER

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#180 : March 09, 2012, 09:57:23 PM

I love the unfounded accusations that Blount is a lazy slacker. Hilarious.

Also, he just turned 25 in December. Nice spin though trying to make him seem a little older than he is in order to support your POV.
Blount is turning 26 THIS year. Where exactly is the spin?
The spin is that, while yes he will turn 26 in 2012, it'll be at the end of the season (and the end of the year)


The Franchi5e

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#181 : March 09, 2012, 10:16:12 PM

Even if we draft Richardson, Blount will have more rushing yards and TD's then Richardson.

Oh really? I would be willing to put money down on that if we do indeed draft him. You wanna take me up on that?

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#182 : March 09, 2012, 10:38:31 PM

Even if we draft Richardson, Blount will have more rushing yards and TD's then Richardson.

Oh really? I would be willing to put money down on that if we do indeed draft him. You wanna take me up on that?

That is an easy bet because neither Blount or Richardson will be used in goal line situations.

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#183 : March 09, 2012, 10:43:40 PM

If I had a ton of money to throw around I would, but since I don't, can't take you up on it. I still don't think we will draft Richardson so it won't matter anyhow. I think we go Martin  in the second or Pead LMJ in  the third if we don't pick Martin in the second.

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#184 : March 09, 2012, 10:52:16 PM

And um...why would Richardson not be used in goal line situations?

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#185 : March 09, 2012, 11:31:23 PM

LOL you didn't destroy anything, jackhole. Finding exceptions to a rule doesn't make it not the rule. Playcalling also plays a role in the scenario, as does distinguishing the difference between a redzone attempt and a scoring attempt, which unfortunately isn't a stat I have access to.
Find exceptions to a rule means that rules is not always true. In other words, the exceptions make that rules variability not so 100% credible. A credible rule does not have exceptions to it or loopholes.....

You also neglected to point out the differential between those teams and the truly bottom of the league teams. For example, Baltimore averaged 3.1 scoring attempts per game, which ranked them at 20, Seattle averaged 2.9, and Arizona averaged 2.8, which put them at 22nd and 23rd. The Buccaneers average was 2.4 per game. That's .5 less than Baltimore. To put that in perspective, if you were to add .5 attempts per game to Baltimore's average, it would tie them for 5th in the NFL. That's how massive the disparity was between the 20th ranked team and the 25th ranked team, which is why simply using the numerical ranking is misleading.
Funny how you ignored the Arizona+Seattle differential to Tampa's when its much much more closer and yet the TD disparity is yet so far away.

If you look at the bottom 8 teams in the league that either tied or were worse than Tampa Bay in redzone opportunities, the runningbacks on those teams include Steven Jackson, Peyton Hillis, Maurice Jones-Drew (more on him later), Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, and Willis McGahee. 4 of those guys were in the running for the rushing title at various points in the season, and the other two were TD machines in past NFL seasons, yet none of them scored double digit TD's.
You brought up RZ #'s to point out Blount didn't get the opportunities other backs didn't. Your too funny . You say in the previous post above. Ravens had .5 more attempts than TB. Then you sit here and try to use those same numbers with the bottom (STL&CLE at 1.9) and point out their RB's and TD volumes. Its a double standard. If I say "if the Rams/Browns had .5 more attempts"(like you did with TB/BAL) their average goes up. Which means those backs have a chance to score more than Blount did.

The other two teams (Indianapolis and Kansas City) combined for 13 rushing TD's total.

Both teams. Combined. 13 rushing TD's.

In 2010, Kansas City averaged 3.1 redzone opportunities a game and scored 13 rushing TD's on their own. Indy averaged 3.4 redzone opportunities a game in 2010 and scored 13 rushing TD's on their own as well. See how that works?
The Colts also threw the ball 680 times the most this decade. What that proves is .3 isn't much of a difference.

Which finally brings me to MJD and his 5th in the NFL 8 rushing TD's. When you use your spin, that sounds pretty awesome. However, when you look at it sans spin, the 8 TD's actually prove my point more than it does yours. Allow me to elaborate.

The Jaguars averaged 2.2 redzone opportunities a game last year. MJD scored 8 TD's on 343 carries. He lead the NFL in carries and yards, yet tied for 5th in rushing TD's. In fact, he was the only one of the top 5 rushers in the NFL last year that didn't score double digit TD's, and he had 42 more carries and 242 more yards rushing than anyone of them. Now if you go back to 2009 (2010 numbers were skewed because he played the entire season with a torn meniscus), Jacksonville averaged 2.9 redzone opportunities a game, which ties the amount that Seattle had this season. He scored 15 rushing TD's that year.
Top 5 rushers non-MJD include: Rice, AP, Foster, (Turner/McCoy)

Red zone numbers:

MJD: 40 carries, 97 yards, 2.4 YPC, 7 td's
AP: 34 carries, 106 yards, 3.1 YPC, 11 TD's
Foster: 54 carries, 3.1 YPC, 170 yards, 9 td's
Rice: 47 carries, 105 yards, 2.2 YC, 10 TD's
Turner: 59 carries, 113 yards, 1.9 YPC, 9 td's
McCoy: 50 carries, 128 yards, 2.6 YPC, 14 td's

Which proves that, total carries(which you brought up in terms of MJD) is pointless in this discussion. Since we're talking about red zone numbers. As you can see, all of those backs besides AP had more carries down inside the red zone. So of course his touchdown numbers aren't going to be as high as theirs. AP, the best back in the NFL, displaying why he is in a class of his own.

How many times has Blount been arrested? How many times has Blount been suspended in the NFL? Is Blount facing criminal charges and/or a possible suspension in 2012? They both played well in 2010, and both played not so well in 2011. Yet you are somehow opting to overlook not only the poor season, but all the knucklehead behavior with Talib, and are trying to play up Blount's one penalty this season, a punch he threw in college, and his poor play as a reason to jettison the guy. Why might that be? Hmm. I wonder?

<cough> Trent Ricardson <cough>
Yeah and here you have it. You turn to off-field issues regarding body of work of the two players on the field. Typical. Too bad off-field issues have nothing to do with how good these players were on the field. Anyway, Blount had a good 2010, bad 2011. Talib had a good 2009 AND 2010 season, bad 2011. See the difference? Talib isn't a one year blunder like Blount is. Your just flat out terrible in terms of making assumptions. So of course I'm going to give Talib more benefit of the doubt when he has proven more. Nice try though.

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#186 : March 09, 2012, 11:35:01 PM

And um...why would Richardson not be used in goal line situations?

Vast majority of starting backs are not used in goal line situations in the NFL.

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#187 : March 09, 2012, 11:46:00 PM

And um...why would Richardson not be used in goal line situations?

Vast majority of starting backs are not used in goal line situations in the NFL.
Like whom?
Richardson would instantly be the best short and down distance back. At 5'9 that fast and strong, he is going to be a red-zone monster. I can't wait.

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#188 : March 10, 2012, 12:28:33 AM

Funny how you ignored the Arizona+Seattle differential to Tampa's when its much much more closer and yet the TD disparity is yet so far away.

Um...didn't ignore them dude, I posted them in my comment. 3.1 for Baltimore, 2.9 for Seattle, 2.8 for Arizona.

Tampa had .7 less than Baltimore. Add .7 to Baltimore's total, they jump from 20th in the league to 5th. 15 spots.
Tampa had .5 less than Seattle. Add .5 to Seattle's total, and they jump from 22nd in the league to 10th. 12 spots.
Tampa had .4 less than Arizona. Add .4 to Arizona's total, they jump from 23rd in the league to 15th. 8 spots.

The point is, even though those teams' numerical ranking makes them look like they weren't that much better than Tampa, they actually were. The NFL Average is 3.1. All those teams were at or close to that average. At 2.4 per game, the Bucs were way below average.

You brought up RZ #'s to point out Blount didn't get the opportunities other backs didn't. Your too funny . You say in the previous post above. Ravens had .5 more attempts than TB. Then you sit here and try to use those same numbers with the bottom (STL&CLE at 1.9) and point out their RB's and TD volumes. Its a double standard. If I say "if the Rams/Browns had .5 more attempts"(like you did with TB/BAL) their average goes up. Which means those backs have a chance to score more than Blount did.

The Bucs actually had .7 less attempts than Baltimore. The .5 was wrong. I have since corrected it. And lets compare TB to St. Louis and Cleveland. By all means, lets. The Buccaneers scored 9 rushing TD's on the season. Leading the pack was Blount with 5 of the 9. The Browns scored 4 rushing TD's on the season. Peyton Hillis lead the way with 3. The Rams scored 7 rushing TD's on the season. Steven Jackson had 5 of them.

Now compare that to the league leading Patriots and Saints. They averaged 4.6 redzone opportunities a game. The Pats scored 18 rushing TD's on the season and the Saints scored 16 despite neither team having a RB that rushed for over 667 yards. Both teams ranked in the top 10 in rushing TD's despite both offenses being pass heavy and neither having anything remotely resembling an elite RB.

The Colts also threw the ball 680 times the most this decade. What that proves is .3 isn't much of a difference.

No, what it proves is that a higher number of redzone opportunities significantly increases your RB's TD totals even if you aren't a team that runs the ball a lot.

Top 5 rushers non-MJD include: Rice, AP, Foster, (Turner/McCoy)

Red zone numbers:

MJD: 40 carries, 97 yards, 2.4 YPC, 7 td's
AP: 34 carries, 106 yards, 3.1 YPC, 11 TD's
Foster: 54 carries, 3.1 YPC, 170 yards, 9 td's
Rice: 47 carries, 105 yards, 2.2 YC, 10 TD's
Turner: 59 carries, 113 yards, 1.9 YPC, 9 td's
McCoy: 50 carries, 128 yards, 2.6 YPC, 14 td's

Which proves that, total carries(which you brought up in terms of MJD) is pointless in this discussion. Since we're talking about red zone numbers. As you can see, all of those backs besides AP had more carries down inside the red zone. So of course his touchdown numbers aren't going to be as high as theirs. AP, the best back in the NFL, displaying why he is in a class of his own.

Not to state the obvious, but this kinda illustrates my point to perfection. How many did Blount get, BTW? Just out of curiosity.

Yeah and here you have it. You turn to off-field issues regarding body of work of the two players on the field. Typical. Too bad off-field issues have nothing to do with how good these players were on the field. Anyway, Blount had a good 2010, bad 2011. Talib had a good 2009 AND 2010 season, bad 2011. See the difference? Talib isn't a one year blunder like Blount is. Your just flat out terrible in terms of making assumptions. So of course I'm going to give Talib more benefit of the doubt when he has proven more. Nice try though.

When your off field issues actually keep you off the field, then I'd say it's a legitimate criticism. Also, Talib has been in the league for 4 years. Blount has been in the league for 2. He's had 2 more years to prove something to you, whereas you aren't even willing to give Blount 3.


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#189 : March 10, 2012, 05:47:27 AM

Um...didn't ignore them dude, I posted them in my comment. 3.1 for Baltimore, 2.9 for Seattle, 2.8 for Arizona.

Tampa had .7 less than Baltimore. Add .7 to Baltimore's total, they jump from 20th in the league to 5th. 15 spots.
Tampa had .5 less than Seattle. Add .5 to Seattle's total, and they jump from 22nd in the league to 10th. 12 spots.
Tampa had .4 less than Arizona. Add .4 to Arizona's total, they jump from 23rd in the league to 15th. 8 spots.

The point is, even though those teams' numerical ranking makes them look like they weren't that much better than Tampa, they actually were. The NFL Average is 3.1. All those teams were at or close to that average. At 2.4 per game, the Bucs were way below average.
Question, how is it scientifically possible to get .7, .5. or .4 of a red zone trip? Your looking too deep into the actually numbers. The number of RZ attempts were divided by 16(games). So of course its not going to be a real number. So its really again not that big of a difference between .7, .5 or .4. Its not even possible to get an attempt >1 in the red zone.

The Bucs actually had .7 less attempts than Baltimore. The .5 was wrong. I have since corrected it. And lets compare TB to St. Louis and Cleveland. By all means, lets. The Buccaneers scored 9 rushing TD's on the season. Leading the pack was Blount with 5 of the 9. The Browns scored 4 rushing TD's on the season. Peyton Hillis lead the way with 3. The Rams scored 7 rushing TD's on the season. Steven Jackson had 5 of them.
You missed my point completely. I brought the Browns and Rams up because they had .5 fewer RZ attempts(lol) than Tampa.

Why is it that you say for me its unfair to compare teams that had >1 RZ attempts per game to us. Then sit here and bring Steven Jackson and Hillis into this, when they had .5 fewer RZ attempts than TB?

Now compare that to the league leading Patriots and Saints. They averaged 4.6 redzone opportunities a game. The Pats scored 18 rushing TD's on the season and the Saints scored 16 despite neither team having a RB that rushed for over 667 yards. Both teams ranked in the top 10 in rushing TD's despite both offenses being pass heavy and neither having anything remotely resembling an elite RB.
That's nice but the Saints and Patriots were #1 and #2 in number of offensive plays. While the Browns and Rams weren't even close to that. So of course when you have the ball that much your bound to well....score


No, what it proves is that a higher number of redzone opportunities significantly increases your RB's TD totals even if you aren't a team that runs the ball a lot.
Um .3 is hardy significant bud. Its very, very small difference. Sorry but those non-real numbers aren't fooling nobody.


Not to state the obvious, but this kinda illustrates my point to perfection. How many did Blount get, BTW? Just out of curiosity.
Do you even know why I brought those numbers up? The Jaguars had 2.2 RZ attempts compared to TB 2.4 and MJD scored 7d's. Our RB's scored only 5 td's despite having more RZ attempts by(.2)
Then you tried to knock MJD TD numbers because they weren't double digits and had a high volume of carries. And I showed you that he did not receive the amount of RZ rushing attempts as the other backs that did.

Oh and I'm not kidding when I post these numbers about Blount(cover your eyes)

RZ:
10 attempts, 9 yards, .09 YPC, 2 td's

inside the 10:
6 of those 10 attempts came from within the 10 yard line. He actually had 13 yards within the 10 yard line (which means in the 20 he had -4 yards for 4 carries) and scored both of his TD's within the 10.


When your off field issues actually keep you off the field, then I'd say it's a legitimate criticism. Also, Talib has been in the league for 4 years. Blount has been in the league for 2. He's had 2 more years to prove something to you, whereas you aren't even willing to give Blount 3.
You know, this was the first time in awhile maybe the first I really had to think through a discussion with you. I'll hand it to you. Either way, # of years or not, Talib has proved more. Therefore, I don't think he is much of a liability than Blount. Yes, he has been on the team for fewer seasons. That's given but I'm just going with what I've seen on the field. Also, off-the field incidents at the end of the day don't determine how good player X vs player Y is. So its actually not a reasonable criticism, not for this debate. If we're talking draft needs etc...yeah.
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